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Jetbull Casino - refuses to return deposits.

RESOLVED
Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on August 24, 2015.

I registered with Jetbull and lost approximately £4230.

I was going to continue to play on the casino, however, today when I came to log in I was alerted that my account was now blocked due to me self-excluding with other EveryMatrix casinos previously, which I understand.

However, my problem lies here, I believe the reason my details were flagged are because I submitted a withdrawal request and therefore sent in verification documents, I heard nothing on this verification other than when I came to log on, incidentally I had reversed this withdrawal request, but had I not, this withdrawal would have never been paid anyway.

As I understand, all my bets should be void I was technically self excluded the whole time, therefore if all bets are void, the deposits should be returned, as they were on this case with EveryMatrix .. http:/­/ww­w.a­skg­amb­ler­s.c­om/­cas­ino­-co­mpl­ain­ts/­cas­ino­-cr­uis­e-r­efu­ses­-to­-re­fun­d-d­eposits

I fail to see the difference between these two cases and believe that EveryMatrix have set a precedent with this case and the same should be followed through on my case.

It seems like the EveryMatrix policy of allowing you to register and deposit funds is simply a no lose money making exercise for them as they will not refund deposits and will also not payout winnings.

Any help with this would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Liam

AskGamblers
posted on August 31, 2015.

@Liamallen90,
Any update considering your complaint?

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on August 31, 2015.

Jetbull have refused to reimburse, this is because they have stated that since the case that they have quoted, they have changed their terms and conditions to include a new clause saying that that will withhold all deposits.

However, the problem lies in that Jetbull still have their old terms and conditions live on their website (version 1.9.) which were the terms I read and agreed to upon sign-up, in these terms, the new clause is not included and therefore the deposits should be returned.

If you google "jetbull terms and conditions" from a mobile device (as I have only ever played from their mobile website), you will see Terms and Conditions 1.9, updated 13th March.

So the very fact these are still present to view would surely raise doubts for them as to which terms I read and agreed to on sign-up, however, they are not budging.

Also, I understand that terms and conditions change, but I never received an update of new terms and conditions, and this is why I expect version 1.9 to be honoured and the deposits to be refunded.

Jetbull/Everymatrix are still insisting they will not do so, despite the evidence clearly pointing out that whilst terms and conditions 1.9 remain active on their website, they can not be certain which terms and conditions new members are reading prior to registering.

They have asked me to submit a dispute to eCOGRA as the next step, which I will do, but on eCOGRA they ask you to wait 2 weeks from the date which the problem began before submitting the dispute, which I am now doing.

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on August 31, 2015.

Also, you will see attached here, old terms and conditions, clearly still live on their website.

AskGamblers
posted on November 5, 2015.

This complaint will be unresolved till we receive a resolution from eCogra or a casino's licence authority.

AskGamblers
posted on June 21, 2017.

This complaint has been reopened due to the declared willingness on behalf of Jetbull Casino management to do everything within their power to solve their old complaints. AskGamblers Complaints Team is reluctant to give these old cases one more chance for a successful resolution.

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on June 21, 2017.

Upon the reopening of this, I have also now found two more recent examples of users being reimbursed their deposits after Jetbull have found them to be self excluded from other everymatrix sites, yet this has still not happened in my case.

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on June 22, 2017.

To follow up to this, the following clause is still active in the terms and conditions listed on their website:

4.6.    Your Account must be registered in your own, correct, name. You may only open one account for the sportsbook. Any other accounts which you open with us in relation to the Service and the Website shall be "Duplicate Accounts". Any Duplicate Accounts may be closed by us immediately and:
4.6.1.    all transactions made from the Duplicate Account will be made void;
4.6.2.    all stakes or deposits made using that Duplicate Account will be returned to You; and
4.6.3.    any returns, winnings or bonuses which you have gained or accrued during such time as the Duplicate Account was active will be forfeited by you and may be reclaimed by us, and you will return to us on demand any such funds which have been withdrawn from the Duplicate Account

posted on June 26, 2017.

Dear @Liamallen90,

We understand how frustrating this situation might be for you. Unfortunately, as you were informed by our self-exclusion and security department, your deposits were not refunded since the Terms and Conditions active at that time were different.

Our security department informed us that they answered to every question you had, provided you with all the evidence needed, and there were no complaints opened on our end. Even though you were advised to contact the ADR, with the assurance that we will act based on the decision taken by them, the case is closed on eCogra as well.

However, please note that we have required a double investigation regarding your case and we will let you know in the shortest time possible what will the conclusion be.


Best regards,
Jetbull Team

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on June 26, 2017.

Thank you for your reply. And I appreciate the double investigation.

As stated at the time, although the terms and conditions had changed. These had not been updated on the mobile site. I only used the mobile site and therefore the terms and conditions that I read and I agreed to included the clause stated above. There was never any evidence supplied that the terms and conditions were updated on the mobile site, as these never were. I sent multiple screenshots at the time to show that the clause above was still active in the terms.

AskGamblers
posted on June 30, 2017.

AskGamblers Complaints Team have just extended the response time frame with another 96 hours hoping that Jetbull Casino management will soon jump in with an update on this complaint.

posted on June 30, 2017.

Dear @Liamallen90,

Our security department conducted an in-depth investigation regarding your case, and we have already forwarded the tickets to the Askgamblers team, tickets that we had in the old database regarding the case.

Back in 2015 the procedures and the Terms and Conditions were different, the refunding was not on the table, as you were informed by our security department. We encourage players to carefully read all the information which is made available to them in order for them to understand player protection and to make an informed decision when either opening an account, or when they request to enter into a self-exclusion agreement which may affect multiple accounts that they may hold with other casinos. This principle of the primary responsibility lies with the gambler, and not the operator.

By creating an account on Jetbull, you accepted the T&C applicable at that time, and updated on 11th of August 2015, that clearly mentioned the following:

“Should you self-exclude from at least one of the websites managed and operated by us and afterwards, during the applicable self-exclusion period, succeed in opening an account, depositing and playing on another website managed by us, your deposited amounts and your subsequent winnings, if any, shall be forfeited by you, retained by us and you agree to waive any and all claims relating to the respective amounts. We also recommend that that consideration is given to the installation of software that will allow you to block access to internet gambling websites.”

We understand your frustration regarding the fact that you believe that the funds should not be denied from you, but unfortunately, Jetbull complied to the T&C active back in 2015, and we cannot refund your deposits. You were advised to escalate the dispute further to an independent third party alternative dispute resolution entity and we would have act accordingly. However, we never got a letter from eCogra - the case is not open on their end.

We hope this explanation clarifies the matter.


Best regards,

Jetbull Team

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on June 30, 2017.

The attached screenshot shows the version of the T's and C's I read when signing up to Jetbull. Please check this version of the terms, as it clearly states the following:


"4.7.1. all transactions made from the duplicate account will be made voide; 4.7.2. all stakes made using the duplicate account shall be voided and deposits will be returned to you"

You say that the terms were updated prior to me joining, and the new terms had removed this clause. Then why do I have a screenshot of the old terms if this was before I registered. Would I just screenshot random T's & C's of random gambling sites at random times just incase I were to register?

You had clearly not updated the T's and C's on your mobile site and thus only the old T's and C's were available for me to read and should therefore clearly be honoured.

posted on July 4, 2017.

Dear @Liamallen90,

Please note that the terms and conditions you quoted refers to the duplicate accounts, or more specifically for those users who manage to open another account on our website, even though he or she already had an active account.

The T&C applicable for self-exclusion in 2015 were already provided to you by our security department, which are the ones mentioned in the above comment. We have always acted based on the T&C, or when it was the case, based on the decision taken by an independent third party alternative dispute resolution entity.

From 2015 until now, we updated the T&C, but unfortunately, since the self-exclusion procedure was different 2 years ago, we cannot proceed with refunding your deposits.

Best regards,

Jetbull Team

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on July 4, 2017.

Please provide a full copy of version 1.9 of the terms and conditions.

That clause not only referred to duplicate accounts, but also those set-up when self excluded.

posted on July 4, 2017.

Dear @Liamallen90,

Please find below the T&C applicable for self exclusion at the time you registered at Jetbull:

"29.3 Self-exclusion - If you feel that you may have lost control of your gambling, we provide a self-exclusion facility which can be activated by contacting selfex­clu­sio­[email protected]­ver­yma­tri­x.com. Self-exclusion will happen within 24 hours from the moment we receive your request for self-exclusion from gambling. You must clearly state why you want to self-exclude and for what period, which may be no less than 6 months. Note that self-exclusion is for individuals that experience problems with gambling. Therefore, by enforcing self-exclusion you acknowledge that you may have a problem and exhibit vulnerability to gambling.

Your account will remain closed for a minimum period of 6 months and cannot be reactivated during this period. Also, as per our licence obligations you will be automatically excluded from other websites managed or operated by us on which you have registered. This will occur no later than 5 working days after your initial self-exclusion request has been received by us. If you request not to be self-excluded on other websites managed by us, a reason for this demand must equally be provided.

Your account will remain closed after the end of the self-exclusion period unless you yourself take positive action to resume gambling by contacting us at selfex­clu­sio­[email protected]­ver­yma­tri­x.com. For additional information regarding self-exclusion and player protection, please visit our Responsible Gaming section.

We will use our reasonable endeavours to ensure compliance with your self-exclusion. However you acknowledge that the primary responsibility for controlling your behaviour lies with you and accept that we will not be liable if you continue gambling and/or seek to use the Website and we fail to recognise or determine that. Should you self-exclude from at least one of the websites managed and operated by us and afterwards, during the applicable self-exclusion period, succeed in opening an account, depositing and playing on another website managed by us, your deposited amounts and your subsequent winnings, if any, shall be forfeited by you, retained by us and you agree to waive any and all claims relating to the respective amounts. We also recommend that consideration is given to the installation of software that will allow you to block access to internet gambling websites. See Filtering Systems at the bottom of this page."


Best regards,

Jetbull Team

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on July 4, 2017.

I don't believe that these terms and conditions are from version 1.9, please can you provide the full terms and conditions for version 1.9.

posted on July 7, 2017.

Dear @Liamallen90,

The screenshot you have attached refer to the MGA/Curacao T&C, terms that do not apply to the UK players. Version 1.9. did not mention our Gambling Commission license and it was not applicable to you, since you fall under our UK license.

As per our back-office, you have accepted the UK T&Cs, not the MGA/Curacao ones (we have sent a screenshot to the Askgamblers Team). Nevertheless, T&C version 1.9. could only be visible if used by VPN. Therefore, since the registered country is UK, if you would have been logged in, the UK T&Cs would have been automatically displayed.

You registered on Jetbull on 16.08.2015, and as you can see in the screenshot below, the applicable version of T&C at that time was version 4.3., last updated on 11th August 2015, terms that contain the clause mentioned above.


Best regards,
Jetbull Team

Liamallen90 United Kingdom
posted on July 7, 2017.

Upon registering, i clicked Terms and Conditions to view them before registering. Version 1.9 (the above screenshot which i attached) was what was presented to me, this is what I read and agreed to.

I have never used a VPN in my life, and only ever logged in from the UK.

On the screenshot i provided, if i were logged in using a VPN on an iphone, which you can clearly see i'm using an iphone, there would be a VPN logo in the top left of the screen. As you can see, there isn't one.

Therefore, my deposits were withheld due a glitch in your system providing me with the incorrect T's and C's to read.

The only terms and conditions presented to me to view were version 1.9, therefore these terms and conditions only, should be honoured.

AskGamblers
posted on July 10, 2017.

AskGamblers Complaints Team has been provided with the full version of the T&C in question that were valid and visible for UK players back in August 2015. 
Based on all the facts in regards of this complaint we could now confirm that Jetbull Casino acted in accordance with their own Terms and Conditions applicable for self-exclusion at the time player registered at the casino.

In case of a disagreement with our decision, we reccomend player to seek further assistance on this matter from the relevant regulatory body responsible for this particular casino brand.

The case is resolved and officially closed.