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BaoCasino - Declined withdraw - Submitted everything asked

REJECTED
Complaint Info
Disputed casino BaoCasino
Reason Declined payment
Posted on July 12, 2019

So,

I used many Direx casinos this past week, and I had no real issues deposi­tin­g/w­ith­dra­wing, except on BaoCasino. Keep in mind I never use bonuses and I checked the box to not use any bonus.

I submitted the documents asked but then I declined my withdraw because I had to make a 75 more wager (3x the deposit for some reason) on a 1200 total deposit (500-350-350).

I did an extra 200 euro wager just to be sure, and then I declined again asked for more documents (selfies etc. even though all other Direx Casinos accepted me) and I submitted a new withdraw request which declined, and this time was about wagering an extra 1400 euro... I tried to find my history bets but I can't go back to all history, I only can see the last 100 of bets history or so (some slots), according to support this is because I have set a cooling off period, so that's ok. Support told me that I have wagered 2200 (photo attached), but anyway, now I'm stuck to have to play 1400 euro on a 1900 withdraw.

After some research and talking with the support, I found the term that specifies about the 3x wagering of the LAST deposit, which in my case, it was 350 euro (not 1200). And still it doesn't say that you will not get paid, I attach this term for your convenience.

So according to support, if you have made a 5k deposit, and you lost it on first bet, your next 200 euro deposit need to be wagered 50x (10k euro) to be able to make a withdraw, again, no a no-bonus deposit.

Well I'm ok if that is the case and I'll just wager the rest of 1400 and be done with this casino, but reading their term doesn't feel correct, and it doesn't even say that, and I feel like I have to wager 350x3 (1050 euro) which I did (2200 total wager, plus I think the 75EUR first request was to complete the wager on the 350 deposit).

I attach the e-mails saying the wager amounts needed to cover. No more deposits did after the first withdraw request.

I let you decide what is wrong/correct in this case :)

AskGamblers
Posted on July 12, 2019

Dear @dlevel,

Please make sure to update your complaint accordingly and clarify the total amount of the disputed withdrawal request/s.

Thanks for cooperating the AskGamblers Complaints Team.

Posted on July 14, 2019

Dear DLEVEL and AskGamblers team!

The player has undergone a standard procedure of antifraud and AML check, as he didn't make enough bets to wager his deposits according to the x3 wager requirement. Therefore, our team acted according to the rules every player accepts upon registration.

The player was told that in order to successfully withdraw the funds, he had to complete the wagering condition, after that the player kept making bets. We did not have any influence on the financial result of the game, as the player kept playing voluntarily. What is more, according to our Terms and Conditions the player could ask for withdrawal with a commission charged (please, see paragraph 10.7 by the link https:­//w­ww.b­ao­cas­ino.co­m/t­erm­s-a­nd-­con­dit­ions), however, such an option was not requested by the player.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Best regards,
Bao Casino team

Posted on July 14, 2019

Thanks for your reply,

Indeed after I posted this complaint (12 hours later) my cooling off period ended and as a gambler I just tried to wager this 1400, lost it all and yeah this happens and this was the reason I had a cooling off periods until my withdraw proceeds which is standard for gamblers to avoid recalling their withdraw.

Anyway, my money is gone, and I can't chase much without a lawyer which would be pretty easy to make a case that they were just stalling the withdraw and making me bet again (75 EUR the first time, 1400 the 2nd) as I was putting one cooling period after another to avoid losing my winnings. but for other players to know what is going on I'll explain it:

1) Term 10.7 clearly states (as you can see on my screenshot) that you have to wager 3x the LAST deposit, which in my case was 350$ and have been wagered fully (2400$ wagered).

2) As you see on 10.7 term, there is nowhere saying that the casino will decline payment, it was saying that it will make a reduction on winnings, they never offered me that, and you can see that on our chats, they were pushing me to bet more, again after they saw my cooling off periods so they understand I'm easily gonna gamble it all, firstly asking to gamble 75 EUR to enable me (which I did and put a new cooling off period) and then saying that 75EUR was a mistake and need to gamble 1400 eur more.

3) The mistake of 75EUR is their mistake, I might have a good streak there and won more, having me bet 1400 more 2 days later (cooling period) is "bad luck" for us gamblers (yeah not much of a point but they had to honor their mistake even if it was correct by their terms, which was clearly not)

4) All these states make it clear that they saw me gambling on their casinos (Direx Limited) and saw the pattern of being a kinda high stakes player and wanted me lured, I might make a case to IBAS, not for the 1900 EUR, but mostly for taking advantage of my playing style and my cooling off periods by trying to make me play more instead of letting me know that they will keep 200 euro of the winnings by their term 10.7 (which again is not correct as you can see on my point no.1).

So that is my case, people can make their own decisions, and I ll just think how I'll proceed to protect others mostly by behaviors like this.

Thanks for listening.

Posted on July 16, 2019

Dear DLEVEL and AskGamblers team!

We acted solely in the interest of the player since we are always trying to create a safe and fair environment for each of our players.
That is why our casino has a strict anti-fraud policy and utilizes various anti-fraud tools and techniques to prevent any possible fraud attempts.

The point 10.7 that player mentioned before says -
"Please mind that if you have requested a withdrawal, but the amount of bets made after your last deposit is not three (3) times higher than the amount of your last deposit, the Casino reserves the right to charge the transaction costs incurred in relation to processing deposits and withdrawals. Under such conditions, withdrawals will be charged at 15% of the amount requested. This decision is at the Casino’s sole discretion." (https­://­www.ba­oca­sin­o.c­om/­ter­ms-­and­-co­ndi­tions).
"Last deposit" in that case is meant to include all of those deposits that were not completely lost.

In fact, in every casino, this rule states that the amount of bets made after the last deposit has to be three times higher than the amount of the last deposit itself. However, if the player did not complete a wager х3, had a lucky win, and made another small deposit just to match this condition, then it can be considered as an attempt to deceive the casino, which may be interpreted as a strong violation of the rules. Which actually happened in this exact case.

That is why we asked the player to wager his previous deposit that wasn't lost.

Considering all the above mentioned, nonetheless we are still on the player's side and ready to meet him halfway and to find the best solution in this case.

Best regards,
Bao Casino team

Posted on July 16, 2019

Yet again, in the term, you just posted it is nowhere stated you will decline the withdraw of a player, just you might charge a 15% fee, which is in your sole discretion.

The reason I deposited before I completely lost everything is because I was playing roulette and I was down to 2-3 more bets and I didn't want to lose a spin for having 0 money to bet, so I made a deposit (which was EXACTLY the same like my previous one, 350 euro, so not a small one) and kept betting, so even if the 350 last deposit was not legal in your eyes, then it would at least mean that the LAST 2 deposits should have counted (350+350=700 which means 2100 total wager, which I did).

The problem here is not only that, it's that as I said again, your term nowhere says about declining a withdraw, I had provided every document asked and you had to accept my withdraw and at the worst-case scenario for me, had 15% of the winnings confiscated. There is nowhere in your term stating you will decline a full withdraw.

So your whole action was for the cooling period to finish so I start gambling with what happened to be something it shouldn't happen, I should have my money withdrawn with -15% of the winnings at most (which again I don't think I should, because I said my LAST deposit was already wagered), and let's not forget about your "mistake" of having me wager 75EUR instead of 1475EUR even if it was the correct amount.

The way you reply to me it will make me escalate that behavior on IBAS, with the argument you took advantage of my gambling habits even though you saw I had cooling periods twice for this exact amount and made me gable twice before re-depositing (one with the 75EUR e-mail and 4 days later for 1400EUR e-mail to wager).

Also, I have the chats stating you knew I was having cooling periods (this was acknowledged by your support team by saying that I have a cooling period on so this is why I can't see my history, which again makes 0 sense)


So let's recap:

1) You are saying I made a smaller deposit before my money finished to deceive you, while you don't have ANY term that withdraws are declined for this reason, and when my previous deposit before my last one, was THE SAME (350 euro).

2) You sent me 1 e-mail of needing to wager 75EUR which I did after my 1st 3-day cooling-off period finishes, and then you ask me for 1400 more 4 days later after my 2nd 1-day cooling-off period finishes and without any new deposit or anything on my account.

3) I can't see my full history of bets while all this happens with the excuse I have the cooling period on (which again encourages me that I have to stop using it, I guess)

4) My 1900 EUR loss wouldn't happen if you followed your own term and confiscated the 15% of winning as per your term, which means 1652 EUR loss, even if what you are saying about me depositing small amounts to deceive you, which clearly is not the case as per my no 1. point.

So what I experienced is a casino encouraging me to stop using the cooling-off periods, and not following their own terms regarding withdrawals and wagering and clearly made me gamble money I wouldn't gamble otherwise (tried to protect myself by putting using tools like the coolling off periods, which is what I do when I have win some good amount of money), and this is what I need for everyone to know

Posted on July 18, 2019

DLEVEL,

The decline of withdrawal resulted from our workflow. As we have to process lots of withdrawals daily, it is necessary to cancel all the transactions that do not meet the requirements and cannot be processed. However, by declining your request we do not aim at making you play or lose your funds. In fact, there is an equal chance that the player may either win or lose while wagering the deposits.

We cannot influence the result of your game after we ask you to wager the deposits made. Please, note that you also agreed to this point: “You hereby agree to fully indemnify and hold harmless the Casino, its directors, employees, partners, and service providers for any cost, expense, loss, damages, claims and liabilities howsoever caused that may arise in relation to your use of the Website or participation in the Games.” (paragraph 8.6 of the Terms and Conditions)

You had a right to use all Responsible Gaming tools available at our casino and request a withdrawal with 15 % charged. You were informed about this option from the Terms and Conditions: both before signing up (as you automatically accept all the terms provided on our website, paragraph 1.1 of the Terms and Conditions) and in chat when you were given a link to the paragraph with this option.

On our side, we just do our best to follow the rules and procedures aimed at preventing fraud and manipulations. Your gambling behaviour seemed suspicious to us, that is why we requested you to follow the 10.7 rule. Moreover, we did not encourage you to disable your cooling off periods or stop using them. Concerning the point about us knowing about your gambling behaviour on other Direx casinos, let us stress that we by no means have access to that information and could not possibly use it against you.

We sincerely hope for your understanding and a positive outcome of this case.

Best regards,
Bao Casino team

AskGamblers
Posted on July 22, 2019

Based on player's explanation posted on July 14th 2019 it is obvious that the disputed amount has been played and lost by the player. In such situation, AskGamblers Complaints Team has no other option, but to reject the case as the main complaints subject is no longer valid.

AskGamblers Complaints Team strongly encourage the casino management to consider possible amendments of the aforementioned term towards more clarity and the avoidance of similar misunderstandings in the future.

AskGamblers
Posted on August 26, 2020

Based on player's explanation posted on July 14th 2019,  it is obvious that the disputed amount has been played and lost by the player. In such situation, AskGamblers Complaints Team has no other option, but to reject the case as the main complaints subject is no longer valid.

AskGamblers Complaints Team strongly encourage the casino management to consider possible amendments of the aforementioned term towards more clarity and the avoidance of similar misunderstandings in the future.

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