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4Grinz Casino - Ignoring its own Bitcoin Payment Provider, refusing to pay 6.775 bitcoin winnings since 10/11/2016

maxlogan United States
posted on November 17, 2016.

The Client's Name has been removed along with the email address used for safety reasons. Please feel free to contact the companies below to verify that they know the Client and have known him for a long time plus that the Client provided them with all neccessary data including ID & Transactions numbers from the day in question in order to be forthwith. These messages below are the best evidence that both tell the narative in a sense and share their conclusions after seperate and independent investigations and both have seperatly come to the same conclusion and that is that the Client did nothing wrong, the transactions are clean and The Client should be paid in full immediately. This event happened on 10/11/2016 the Casino that seized the 8.4 Bitcoin in winnings while The Client was still playing and locked him out of his account is 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino . The last message on the bottom tells what happened took place best along with their recomendation regarding how to settle this. ‘Cubits’ is the Bitcoin Payment Provider for 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino and ‘Yalet Bitcoin Wallet’ is the Mobile Bitcoin Wallet Application Provider used by The Client for nearly a year and ‘Scorechain’ is its sibling company that specializes in Blockchain security and investigations of various types of fraud, money laundering, etc that take place on the Blockchain. The companies are extremely qualified to express their conclusions from an independent standpoint. Thank you for this opportunity to attempt to right a wrong here.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: You've been contacted by The Client
Local Time: October 15, 2016 9:51 AM
UTC Time: October 15, 2016 4:51 PM
From: [email protected]

Hi Client,

Sorry for that. The fee part of the API was down. It should now work as expected but you should always check if fees are OK for you use-case.


The Yallet team


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The Client ($4400 USD in Bitcoin)!!!!!!!!!!! URGENT !!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!!!!! 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino !!!!!!!!!!!!
Local Time: October 17, 2016 9:04 AM
UTC Time: October 17, 2016 4:04 PM
From: [email protected]
To: The Client


Thank you for Kind words.
We have informed 4Grinz management that we think your transactions are okay.

We are waiting for their reply.

Kind regards,
Your Cubits Team


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:The Client ($4400 USD in Bitcoin)!!!!!!!!!!! URGENT !!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!!!!! 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino !!!!!!!!!!!!
Local Time: October 19, 2016 2:13 AM
UTC Time: October 19, 2016 9:13 AM
From: [email protected]
To: The Client

Dear Client,

We think that is not your fault that Blockchain wallet has downtimes and put the lowest fee on the market which makes transactions to travel in mem-pool for hours/days.
As we said we claim that your transactions are clean.

There are few parties in between 4Grinz and Cubits, we are discussing your case.

Kind regards,
Your Cubits Team


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Fwd: You've been contacted by The Client
Local Time: November 10, 2016 10:41 AM
UTC Time: November 10, 2016 6:41 PM
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The Client

Hi 4grinz folks,

We're the developers behind Yallet (Bitcoin wallet for iOS and Android). We also have a company called Scorechain that is rating Bitcoin services depending on how they comply with usual regulatory requirements and how they treat incidents with their customers.

We were contacted by one of our user who lost significant amount of bitcoins because his transaction from our wallet to your casino didn't confirm for 3 hours and you said it was fraud. 3 hours confirmation is usual in Bitcoin-world, especially those times where the blocks are pretty full! Moreover, the fees at this time were so high that we had a problem with our Yallet API, even was down at that time. All of our users were affected and were sending transactions with not enough fees at this time. The Client was one of them. All has been fixed few hours later but the evil was done. At the end, you got the money and there was no fraud and no double spend recorded in the blockchain.

Can you please consider this exceptional situation and refund The Client with the Bitcoins he should have get from your casino? (around ~6-8 BTC / $4200, you should have the exact value) He seems to have been a great customer spending more than 89 BTC on your site. It will be a very appreciated move.

Best regards,

The Yallet/Scorechain team

posted on November 18, 2016.

First, it’s important for readers of this complaint to note that Maxlogan is not a 4Grinz player. For whatever reason he's come forth to represent “Magnetic1," who should represent himself in a public complaint.

As for the two pieces of "supporting" evidence submitted, they are fake. 4Grinz have no emails from Yallet or Cubits. None, not for this player or regarding any other inquiry.

This is an elaborate effort to put public pressure on 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino, and most likely other casinos, to steal more than $4,000.

The player, "magnetic1" is a notorious double-spender who made three deposits using third-party software that did not clear the blockchain.

The players account was deactivated and closed permanently on 12 October, 2016. His balance of 1.65BTC before fraudulent activity was refunded by 4Grinz on 12 October, 2016; https:­//l­­ock­cyp­­m/b­tc/­add­res­s/1­8GY­sut­drz­GDG­EEX­tqK­sj9­71m­Exj­dBjD2u/

4Grinz procedures were performed according to paragraphs 3.2 and 3.9 of our Terms and Conditions.
Please see image attached of our merchant wallet showing the player's unconfirmed deposits.
Please see image attached of our admin comparing the exact same amounts of confirmed double-spends by the player.

This IP < text removed >, California, ***** United States remains under close scrutiny at 4Grinz. We warn other casinos from allowing this IP to participate in related gambling activity.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 18, 2016.

Please contact [email protected] and [email protected] to verify the authenticity of the messages and verify that 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino has been notified of the results of their inquiry into this matter. Also verify with [email protected] that the one message below that was addressed to 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino and which they also copied The Former Client/Account Holder at 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casin did not bounce which probably means that 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino indeed received the message. One the authenticity of the messages including the one addressed to 4GrinZ are established, it would be nice if 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino actually addressed the issue instead of trying to frame The Former GrinZ Bitcoin Casino Account Holder as a Notorious Double Spender, that accusation absolutely nuts . As far as IP identification that move could be crossing the line in my opinion. Please verify the claims of faked messages from [email protected] and [email protected] and after that it should become clear what has happened here.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 18, 2016.

All transactions below confirmed in 333 Minutes 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino had their money but instead of paying out the winnings of 8.4 Bitcoin they chose to refund 80% of the sum of the three deposits in question that day instead of giving it time to thoroughly investigate they made up their mind and performed the refund immediately after the deposits confirmed. Their refusal to honor the winnings was shocking. The attacks and accusations and attempts to expose and discredit the former account holder is inappropriate. The former GrinZ account holder has Identified to 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino, Yallet Bitcoin Wallet, Cubits, AskGamblers.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 18, 2016.

This statement speaks clearly that 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino Made up their minds and nobody, Cubits, Blockchain, no Wallet or Banking Service can convince them.

What has happened when approaching this has been addressed by the opponent through a combination of character assassination and its their way or the highway because their minds are made up. They have went so far as to list an IP address of innocent people. This needs to be removed immediately.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 19, 2016.

The former 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino account holder is hardly a notorious double spender as claimed. In fact he is pretty close friends with a few of the main Bitcoin Casino Owners. Below is a conversation that says it all in this regard and it shows the method 4GrinZ chose to address this.

When a deposit takes over 3 hours to verify it puts the Casino in a bad situation. They are out the Bitcoin that they credited the Account Depositor to the amount of 20% apparently. This is why the refund was made immediately when the transactions confirmed and minus 20%. Granted the Casino credits the Bitcoin to play with but by no means can that Bitcoin be removed until the deposit in this case 3 deposits have cleared. If it takes longer than 3 hours to confirm it messes with the Casino Balance so they can't pay out I guess. This is something that is a lot more understandable than the approach that was taken.

Instead of just explaining to the Former 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino account holder that that was the case, they instead assumed that the Account Holder who they have known for a year and who spent more Bitcoin there than most should they summed up that a hard stance was the road to take if it is determined down the road that indeed the account holder was acting in good faith. The degree of character assassination, accusations of faking emails, obvious untruthful statements of not being contacted by their own payment provider Cubits and the Third party Wallet provider 'Yallet Bitcoin Wallet' & Bitcoin Security Company 'Scorechain' and lastly attempting to expose an IP address belonging to innocent people in a town that the Former 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino account holder does not reside or anywhere close too if you call the other side of the State close and can be verified. These are not the way anyone would expect to be treated that has spent good money at a venue online for nearly a year. Lord knows what the next response will be...

My advice would be not to play at any Bitcoin Casino unless you have a 'KeepKey' or 'Trezor' hardware wallet or have 'Bitcoin Core' and the blockchain running and you send from your Bitcoind Node, Bitcoin RPC Console, or the Bitcoin Core 0.13.1 Released with Segregated Witness. This would be your best chance of having this not happen to you. It is bad enough to not be paid your winnings because of a glitch, but its even worse to be slandered and have an anonymous Costa Rican Casino take it so far as to attempt to ID your Geographical Location in the US which we all know is not always an accurate location but does put innocent people in danger of some nut job or dangerous Central American thugs acting on it. 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casinos handling of this situation stinks. This could happen to anyone.

The former 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino account holder appreciates the honesty and assistance of 'Cubits' 'Yallet Bitcoin Wallet' 'Scorechain' 'mBit Casino' 'Bitcoin Gambling guide' 'AskGamblers' whom we believe to be of the greatest character and operate fully with the high level of integrity in the industry that is to be expected.

This situation is not resolved. It will most likely not be resolved until the character assassinations, accusations, untruths and attempts to endanger innocent people through low tech geolocation identification ends.

posted on November 19, 2016.

The image provided by MaxLogan is not of a conversation between 4Grinz and the player, nor 4Grinz and the implied casino owner. We cannot verify its authenticity. However, if this is an mBit Casino representative, I want to thank that person for standing by 4Grinz and suggesting the player take his complaint to his wallet provider. It also proves that our terms are not unreasonable and are practiced by other casinos.

As stated above by the mBit representative, we couldn't have framed it better.

"In summary, your transactions appear to either not confirm or confirm so late that it cannot be used as funds in the casino balance... It would be wise to use secure and fast wallets (if not hardware) going forward. It was an unfortunate situation caused by your wallet provider... Most casinos demand confirmation within x time period... That rule is there for protection... It gets you in trouble with purchase orders on products, in the same way it generates an issue at casinos... I would crack the sh_ts at the wallet provider, quite honestly."

maxlogan United States
posted on November 19, 2016.

Dear 4GrinZ,

Yes, that was the person from mBit Casino and indeed they did back you. They also backed me having known me for a few years and knowing that I would not cheat a casino. This is entirely based on my association with them as a player. They explained it to me in a way I understood. This is why I suggested above for anyone reading this to get a hardware wallet like a 'KeepKey' which is what I just picked up. The rules are not entirely unreasonable. Painful and extreme but I do not know what I would do if the situation was reversed. That was a lot of money won. Thats the way I play sometimes, deposit after deposit in the end trying to win it back and and be a buck ahead and I am happy.

The reason I have continued to push this is because this is a major flaw in the system that this could happen to someone that plays like I do when I play. But mainly because of the fraud allegation. Obviously in my work I can't have something like that out there and this is why this battle is only beginning regardless of the fact that I do not like this type of route. I included below a copy of a message from the end of last February. I used the same 'Yallet Wallet' I purchased a component from NewEgg or something and it took 3 days to confirm. I had mentioned to you that this had happened before. It actually has happened more times than that. However I like the people at 'Yallet' and I cracked down on them back then and I really cracked down after the mBit Casino conversation.

If 4GrinZ could come off the accusations and admit that there is at least a 50% chance that I was indeed acting in good faith and not double spending and returned 100% of what I deposited that day which is the remaining 20% (Like around $300) plus the 0.37 BTC in Coin Back I had coming that Friday I would come off of this and chalk it up as a painful learning lesson to use a 'KeepKey or 'Trezor' hardware wallet if playing because now I know the hard way about the you better pray your transactions confirm in 3 hours policy or your burnt.

If not I will be forced to continue in order to clear my name, I also below that a lot of people in the community would agree that the winnings were in good faith and fair and square. Plus we both know I spent a lot of money playing at 4GrinZ and there was never an issue in this regard prior. I was not double spending, I had never seen that video before and up till after this happened I thought double spends required 51% of the Bitcoin Network mining hash rate. I have not yet been 10% as hard on you guys as you have been on me. Let me know, you know how to get a hold of me.

Otherwise put on some goggles because this will be a wild ride that I will have no choice but to go all in to protect my name and obtain my winnings because its not like you did not get paid or you could not of refunded the 80% of the total sum of the 3 deposits that night. I think I am proposing a fair offer and I know because we were all friends before this that you guys were always fair to me before this incident.


posted on November 19, 2016.

So, let's clarify something. You, MaxLogan are, in reality, player "magnetic 1." You posed as a third party on your own behalf, and are now writing this complaint in the first person.

In your statement, you suggest that we collected 8BTC from somewhere or someone and that we confiscated the winnings, "... because its not like you did not get paid or you could not of refunded the 80% of the total sum of the 3 deposits that night."

Your lack of understanding on how winnings are paid to players, and by whom, is most likely what led you to this mental state. You also fail to realize that we pay game providers in realtime.

Here are the facts. No one pays us a player's winnings. We aren't compensated for big wins, only jackpots, and only through Betsoft. We contribute a substantial amount to that jackpot pool each month. We do not get a refund on that contribution. If a player wins a jackpot and then wagers it back, we're on the hook and receive no compensation, or only the un-wagered portion. You did not win a jackpot. You won playing with our markers while we covered the fees. Those fees are not refundable. We did not get paid by anyone or any entity for your wins.

4Grinz pays winnings from its own pocket, as do all online casinos. There's no magic 8BTC of your big win that magically credits to our accounts. We aren't replenished by a slot machine or game provider. Casinos are responsible for paying players all winnings, in full - unless a player's deposit hasn't cleared. Then, there's a problem.

You sir, did not have one deposit pending, but three. Three deposits that far exceeded our terms and conditions. You insisted we pay you. Demanded your winnings. Attempted to bribe a staff member and promised a substantial kickback if that person just okayed the cashout request.

Maybe now you can understand that when you play with a casino marker, that casino is very cautious. Your marker became two markers, then three, and none had cleared. When that marker long exceeds a reasonable amount of time to clear, then the casino pulls the marker. Our rules have been in place since inception. They are no more unreasonable or different than most bitcoin casinos protecting their assets and players from double-spends and popular third-party software.

You did not lose. We gained nothing. The funds you claim you were cheated never existed.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 20, 2016.


What about the 0.3+ Bitcoin That was supposed to be returned 10/14/2016 as part of Coin Back? It was Tuesday 10/11/2016 the day of these 3 deposit transactions that got the accounted locked and quickly refunded 80% of those 3 confirmed deposits. Your Coin Back policy I was under the impression was 10% off all loses combined for the week unless you win and cash out more than you lost. It was 5 days into the week according to Coin Back and in those 5 days there was well over 3 Bitcoin lost for the week. The Coin Back should be paid in my opinion. Did I loose my Coin Back because my Wallet Provider had a API issue that effected the fees and made all the transactions go out low priority during the same time period according to them as the three deposits were made on 10/11/2016 unbeknownst to me? There were no issues or confirmation delays on those deposits equalling over 3 Bitcoin. Just like there were no issues or delays on the numerous other deposits over the course of nearly a year. The Coin Back should be paid?

posted on November 23, 2016.

While waiting for review and response from AskGambers regarding this case, please refer to paragraph 3.7.1 of our Terms and conditions.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 23, 2016.

Will do, thank you.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 24, 2016.

3.7.1 of Terms and Conditions is pretty clear I am burnt.

You guys seem so sure that I was double spending, but 'Cubits' your payment provider says I was not and mt transactions were clean and that this was not my fault.

'Yallet' Mobile Bitcoin Wallet and their parent Company 'Scorechain' says my transactions were clean and listed the reasons for the delay above.

Are you still claiming that 'Cubits' and 'Yalle­t'/­'Sc­ore­chain' never contacted you to let you know that they investigated the three transactions and all concluded that the transactions were clean and gave reasons for the 333 Minute Confirmation Times and that the emails from them above were faked?

The thing that I find odd is that I spent a lot of Bitcoin over the course of a year at 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino. I always stopped at 'Live Chat' and said hello and talked about things I was doing and always complemented you guys. Why would you not give me the benefit of the doubt do to all the money spent at 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino over the year and at least investigated it further?

When I was told I was accused of double spending, of course I started demanding I be paid. There were 8.4 Bitcoin in accumulated winnings in my account and I had just spent $1300 in those 3 deposits that day. Anyone would of demanded what they were to believe was theirs and earned fair and square. The deposits confirmed that night. After speaking with mBit Casino whom I have a good reputation with and was explained that after 3 hours if a deposit has not confirmed that your books are off balance or something. Three hours is not enough time. There can be API issues or could be down (which according to 'Yallet' Bitcoin Wallet and 'Scorechain' this was the reason that caused this and they located my Transactions among them) There also could be Malleability issues with people spamming the Blockchain. You took no time to look into either. Plus you denied having issues during that time but since 'Yallet Wallet' and 'Scorechain' determined this to be the cause along with their own Fees API being down) This can be verified. and indeed.

You said in your email respon­se:­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­______-
We went back to double-check. There were no DDOS attacks that day, nor during the time we waited for you deposits to clear. It was business as usual. I was also processing purchase orders without incident. Yours were the only three transactions, of hundreds sent and received that evening, that did not receive a single confirmation. When I asked you to provide me with a response from your wallet or Cubits confirming a DDOS attack, you sent me a response from Cubits to you stating,

“Thank you for your kinds words.

We have informed 4Grinz management that we think your transactions are okay. We are waiting for their reply. Kind regards,
Your Cubits Team.”

While I admit it’s a response, “we think your transactions are okay” doesn’t give us much to work with. When you reached out to me on Skype that evening and suggested that 4Grinz wasn’t releasing your winnings, I rushed to my office. There they were, three transactions on the dashboard of the admin area, one flagged, one marked “double- spend” and the other “fraud.”_­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­______
According to 'Yallet Wallet' and 'Scorechain' if we are to trust them, you did not look very hard because was having problems, I don't know what kind of problems but they were having issues same as 'Yallet' because 'Yallet' like I said uses the API.

I think your payment provider 'Cubits' saying that "my Transactions were okay" was a lot of information. Sure they could provide you with the details upon request but you waited no time to blast into me with the Fraud, Double Spend and character attacks. You are sticking to your decision and nobody will change your mind.

You said at the other site:_­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­___­_______

Dear ______ I want to be very clear no other company has a say on how we handle our customers, not cubits, not blockchain , no wallet no banking service has ANY authority as to how we enforce our internal policies

#1 None of them witnessed you trying to bribe ____ if she was to process that cashout,
#2 You tried to split the winning with me too if i processed it…

This is has been deemed a clear case of double spend/ fraud.

And that is pretty much all the evidence we need, consider the matter terminated right here, there will be no more discussion with you or anyone about this topic.

We will not be replying to this thread anymore.

Thank you

November 7, 2016 at 1:07 pm
by: 4grinzcasino


Obviously no matter what anyone says your minds made up. According to that statement it appears that you actually did receive contact from 'Cubits' 'Yallet" etc and obviously since their investigation concluded that I was not acting in bad faith you still were not going to pay or come off your accusations..

The Bribe Accusations are false:

At the time I was under the impression that this would clear up and I would get the 8.4 Bitcoin in winnings. You refer to that as not real money. But the deposits I made while playing those markers were real money. They cleared tht night and you refunded 80% of the total sum of the 3 confirmed deposits made that day.

You said;

[10/11/16, 7:28:59 PM] 4GrinZStaff: This had better be good. I was at dinner.
[10/11/16, 7:29:10 PM] Me: Come on
[10/11/16, 7:29:20 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Nice win, BTW.
[10/11/16, 7:29:45 PM] Me: I will send you and your husband to dinner once this clears
[10/11/16, 7:29:53 PM] 4GrinZStaff: But, yes. You’re locked out for fraud. You were flagged.
[10/11/16, 7:29:56 PM] Me: Give me your BTC address here
[10/11/16, 7:30:03 PM] Me: Keep it between us
[10/11/16, 7:30:16 PM] Me: Well

That is hardly a bribe above.

When I went to talk to the Admin I told him that I would work with him. I figured one of the components to this mess was that you guys probably could not afford to pay me out.

Still from what I gather you would of had to pay me out of your pocket. I can understand the resistance.

You said above:

The player, "_______" is a notorious double-spender who made three deposits using third-party software that did not clear the blockchain.

Can you source this? Can you bring me one casino other than yours that will back up your claim that I am a notorious Double Spender? (My guess is you can't)

I tried to Mea Culpa and settle this as long as you came off the fraud accusations and all the other ad-homenum attacks of my character and refund the remaining 20% of the 3 deposit sum totals for that day plus my Coin Back. But instead you accused me of being mental.

All I can say is I have provided all I could source wise. I have not denied anything or lied. I think you have not proven your end but you have proven your not going to pay the 8.4 Bitcoin in winnings that you say was not real contrary to the real money I deposited. Your not going to stop the accusations of fraud and your not going to send my Coin Back. This is clear regardless.

I will never stop contesting these accusations of Fraud. Thats what I have the most issue with. I know you guys would never pay me the winnings, thats obvious or listen to anyone's conclusions in investigating this.

My guess is your response will be more attacks of my character and more trying to expose who I am and where I am located and where I work, and anything I said when I thought we were friends is my guess. At the end of the day you are never going to pay. You probably will never stop the fraud accusations either. This could happen to anyone.

RE:Below is the Skype Chat conversation with the 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino Staff Member during the incident on 10/11/2016

10/11/16, 6:56:20 PM] Me: _____, this is _____. I just got locked out of my account on grinz
[10/11/16, 6:56:41 PM] 4GrinZ Staff: What?
[10/11/16, 6:56:47 PM] 4GrinZ Staff: Hey. How are you?
[10/11/16, 6:56:54 PM] Me: I won 8.5 BTC
[10/11/16, 6:56:58 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Nice1
[10/11/16, 6:57:07 PM] Me: But just got locked out
[10/11/16, 6:57:08 PM] 4GrinZStaff: What were you playing.
[10/11/16, 6:57:15 PM] 4GrinZStaff: locked out.
[10/11/16, 6:57:18 PM] 4GrinZStaff: okay
[10/11/16, 6:57:20 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Let me check.
[10/11/16, 6:57:27 PM] Me: If its a hacker they can’t get it because the deposit has not cleared
[10/11/16, 6:57:36 PM] 4GrinZStaff: All we have is our clerks, and they don’t disable accounts.
[10/11/16, 6:57:50 PM] Me: I was playing the Susie like usuall
[10/11/16, 6:58:06 PM] Me: But hit 5 BTC on the Sloto something new Betsoft
[10/11/16, 6:58:22 PM] Me: Then of the Cowboy one I hit 3 more
[10/11/16, 6:59:01 PM] Me: It says my account is disabled
[10/11/16, 6:59:23 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Okay. Give me a minute.
[10/11/16, 6:59:37 PM] Me: _____ told me I had to wit till the deposit cleared
[10/11/16, 6:59:44 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Let me check with our clerks. I’m at home.
[10/11/16, 6:59:52 PM] Me: I am looking at the transaction it has not cleared still
[10/11/16, 6:59:57 PM] Me: Thank god
[10/11/16, 7:00:00 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Oh. I was just writing to ____.
[10/11/16, 7:00:13 PM] 4GrinZStaff: How many confirmations?
[10/11/16, 7:00:48 PM] Me: I checked in with him because I did not want to cause issues like that time when you did the 5 BTC payout and I was freaking out
[10/11/16, 7:01:04 PM] Me: He said it would work once it cleared
[10/11/16, 7:01:24 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I can’t see, I’m not in admin. How many confirmations on your deposit.
[10/11/16, 7:01:25 PM] Me: https:­//b­loc­kch­­fo/­tx/­329­d93­bdf­b83­726­30c­a54­fbf­271­32d­c24­1bd­852­bfa­336­cac­dc7­676­173­0b4­cb1­7?s­how­_ad­v=true
[10/11/16, 7:01:25 PM] 4GrinZStaff: ?
[10/11/16, 7:01:35 PM] Me: Thats the transaction deposit
[10/11/16, 7:01:48 PM] Me: Its sent from my usual address
[10/11/16, 7:03:00 PM] Me: I sent it from my Yallet Wallet I have it set on max TX fee but it said it did not send any fees
[10/11/16, 7:03:05 PM] 4GrinZStaff: There are no confirmations?
[10/11/16, 7:03:10 PM] Me: Not yet
[10/11/16, 7:03:16 PM] Me: On any of them
[10/11/16, 7:03:17 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Ugh. I can’t get to admin from here.
[10/11/16, 7:03:25 PM] Me: I dumped 2 BTC total
[10/11/16, 7:03:41 PM] Me: But I hav 8.4 BTC won
[10/11/16, 7:04:01 PM] Me: How do we do this
[10/11/16, 7:04:03 PM] Me: ?
[10/11/16, 7:04:12 PM] Me: I might be hacked
[10/11/16, 7:04:23 PM] Me: I don’t want the hacker to get it
[10/11/16, 7:04:41 PM] Me: I can turn on my video and show you my ID that its me
[10/11/16, 7:04:50 PM] Me: But I think you know its me
[10/11/16, 7:05:09 PM] Me: Remember we both knew Bryan Micon from Seaes with Clubs
[10/11/16, 7:05:18 PM] Me: seales 😉
[10/11/16, 7:05:23 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Well first, relax, but it looks like our automated system marked you as fraud because a deposit from four hours ago did not receive one confirmation. If that’s the case, it’s void.
[10/11/16, 7:05:47 PM] 4GrinZStaff: You have three that are more than an hour.
[10/11/16, 7:06:00 PM] 4GrinZStaff: If it’s more than three hours, Cubits rejects it.
[10/11/16, 7:06:08 PM] 4GrinZStaff: And then the platform resets.
[10/11/16, 7:06:09 PM] Me: I have had that happen with this wallet before
[10/11/16, 7:06:15 PM] Me: It eventually clears
[10/11/16, 7:06:16 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Oh stop.
[10/11/16, 7:06:23 PM] Me: I can contact yallet
[10/11/16, 7:06:31 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I’ve never seen this before.
[10/11/16, 7:06:39 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I’m baffled.
[10/11/16, 7:06:44 PM] Me: I have
[10/11/16, 7:06:54 PM] 4GrinZStaff: But all of our transactions seem to be clearing from other players just fine.
[10/11/16, 7:07:08 PM] Me: I have seen malleability issues with Bitcoin tke 2 days to confirm a TX
[10/11/16, 7:07:49 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Well, our admin is CET, so if it doesn’t clear, it just resets.
[10/11/16, 7:07:54 PM] Me: You can see that it was sent from the same address I have been sending from always since the beginning
[10/11/16, 7:08:39 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Yes. A lot of casinos have been getting abused by that video that came out on how to double spend.
[10/11/16, 7:08:47 PM] 4GrinZStaff: So, we all have safety measures in place.
[10/11/16, 7:09:02 PM] Me: I just took a screenshot in my wallet
[10/11/16, 7:09:36 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Players delay a deposit, and then play. If they lose, they double spend. If they win, they wait for the deposit to clear.
[10/11/16, 7:09:56 PM] Me: Not me
[10/11/16, 7:10:06 PM] Me I really never heard of that.
[10/11/16, 7:10:14 PM] Me: It would be discussed
[10/11/16, 7:10:19 PM] Me: I am a developer
[10/11/16, 7:11:15 PM] Me: Image
[10/11/16, 7:12:16 PM] Me: Let me work on contacting Yallet the wallet provider and put them in contact with you
[10/11/16, 7:12:30 PM] Me: can I get your email address?
[10/11/16, 7:13:13 PM] 4GrinZStaff: https:­//w­ww.d­as­h.o­rg/­new­s/b­itc­oin­-do­ubl­e-s­pen­d-t­ool­-no­w-a­vai­lab­le-­to-­all­-in­ter­vie­w-w­-gl­ass­-hu­nts­-ha­ckers/
[10/11/16, 7:13:30 PM] 4GrinZStaff: just have them send it to [email protected]
[10/11/16, 7:23:30 PM] Me: _______ I can see the very first deposit is almost going to confirm
[10/11/16, 7:23:45 PM] Me: https:­//b­loc­kch­­fo/­tx/­940­851­b2a­140­ad7­61f­5e7­c51­51b­e05­a38­753­d08­f8d­ece­d10­b06­d88­15c­5fed644
[10/11/16, 7:24:22 PM] Me: The second deposit is still at medium priority
[10/11/16, 7:24:24 PM] 4GrinZStaff Did you change the priority?
[10/11/16, 7:24:24 PM] Me: https:­//b­loc­kch­­fo/­tx/­8e0­5bd­0c8­2ca­ee7­800­7c8­2e9­da4­4e2­9b8­9e0­3df­f3e­daa­c87­e1d­d99­35d­bbed0fa
[10/11/16, 7:25:14 PM] Me: Same with this- https:­//b­loc­kch­­fo/­tx/­658­e50­ed0­33f­242­6e1­81f­25c­2a2­310­64a­b61­3d6­6b1­822­bbf­15c­4cb­166­727cdea
[10/11/16, 7:25:28 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Did you change the priority?
[10/11/16, 7:25:57 PM] Me: I have it on high TX fee when I send them
[10/11/16, 7:26:08 PM] Me: You can’t change priority once sent
[10/11/16, 7:26:19 PM] Me: Its just eventually confirming
[10/11/16, 7:26:21 PM] 4GrinZStaff: The last one you sent didn’t have a priority.
[10/11/16, 7:26:31 PM] Me: Here is the deposit I won on
[10/11/16, 7:26:33 PM] Me: https:­//b­loc­kch­­fo/­tx/­329­d93­bdf­b83­726­30c­a54­fbf­271­32d­c24­1bd­852­bfa­336­cac­dc7­676­173­0b4cb17
[10/11/16, 7:26:51 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I don’t know what you mean.
[10/11/16, 7:26:57 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Slow down.
[10/11/16, 7:26:58 PM] Me: They all said medium 6 blocks
[10/11/16, 7:27:31 PM] Me: You guys are going to be receiving your money from the first deposit soon
[10/11/16, 7:27:55 PM] Me: then I am sure the rest will follow suit fast
[10/11/16, 7:27:58 PM] Me: I hope
[10/11/16, 7:28:08 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I’m so confused.
[10/11/16, 7:28:14 PM] Me: But they all at one time said Medium Priority
[10/11/16, 7:28:21 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I’m just getting into look at the admin.
[10/11/16, 7:28:22 PM] Me: I never send on Medium
[10/11/16, 7:28:27 PM] Me: I send on high
[10/11/16, 7:28:42 PM] 4GrinZStaff: I had to get to my laptop.
[10/11/16, 7:28:48 PM] Me: But this wallet made by Yallet has done that before
[10/11/16, 7:28:59 PM] 4GrinZStaff: This had better be good. I was at dinner.
[10/11/16, 7:29:10 PM] Me: Come on
[10/11/16, 7:29:20 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Nice win, BTW.
[10/11/16, 7:29:45 PM] Me: I will send you and your husband to dinner once this clears
[10/11/16, 7:29:53 PM] 4GrinZStaff: But, yes. You’re locked out for fraud. You were flagged.
[10/11/16, 7:29:56 PM] Me: Give me your BTC address here
[10/11/16, 7:30:03 PM] Me: Keep it between us
[10/11/16, 7:30:16 PM] Me: Well
[10/11/16, 7:30:20 PM] 4GrinZStaff: Not unusual. Our system does that when a deposit hasn’t cleared in more than three hours. I can see all of them still pending.
[10/11/16, 7:30:33 PM] Me: Thats not going to be the case once it clears
[10/11/16, 7:30:41 PM] Me: What do we do?
[10/11/16, 7:31:26 PM] Me: I am still trying to send Yallet the message to contact you
[10/11/16, 7:31:33 PM] Me: I have the record
[10/11/16, 7:31:38 PM] Me: All the TXs
[10/11/16, 7:32:01 PM] Me: Plus months of records of me sending from the same wallet address
[10/11/16, 7:32:10 PM] 4GrinZStaff: LOL. Why do you want my wallet? Are you taking me to dinner?
[10/11/16, 7:32:17 PM] Me: If it worked before it will work again

RE: Final Response from 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino

———- Forwarded message —————
From: 4GrinZ
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:01 PM Subject: 4Grinz Complaint Response
To: Me
Cc: suppor­[email protected]­oft­swi­, wisewa­lru­spr­@gm­, [email protected]


It’s me ______. As the 4Grinz PR and Marketing Director, I realize this issue should be resolved through 4Grinz or ____, but based on our long chats over Skype, I volunteered to respond to your complaint and will begin by addressing two notable comments made by you today. “ was being hit with a DDOS during that time some transactions were delayed up to a couple days.” We went back to double-check. There were no DDOS attacks that day, nor during the time we waited for you deposits to clear. It was business as usual. I was also processing purchase orders without incident. Yours were the only three transactions, of hundreds sent and received that evening, that did not receive a single confirmation. When I asked you to provide me with a response from your wallet or Cubits confirming a DDOS attack, you sent me a response from Cubits to you stating,

“Thank you for your kinds words.

We have informed 4Grinz management that we think your transactions are okay. We are waiting for their reply. Kind regards,
Your Cubits Team.”

While I admit it’s a response, “we think your transactions are okay” doesn’t give us much to work with. When you reached out to me on Skype that evening and suggested that 4Grinz wasn’t releasing your winnings, I rushed to my office. There they were, three transactions on the dashboard of the admin area, one flagged, one marked “double- spend” and the other “fraud.” All three were in your name and delayed several hours. I suggested you contact ____.

4Grinz’ has rules that protect them from double-spends because it’s currently prevalent among online bitcoin casinos. With safeguards in place, double spends are easy to identify. Players using public and free software to delay deposits always win, because if they lose, the deposits never clear. You and ____ discussed these capabilities and their benefits during previous conversations.

4Grinz flags a transaction with zero confirmations after one hour. Had there been several deposit delays by other players, they would have been listed with yours in the Admin area. We’ve experienced attacks on the blockchain before, and understand transactions can be delayed from time to time. In those cases, we suspend the rules and lift flags to accommodate our players. When the system flags only one player transaction and sends it pending on the dashboard for five hours, it’s a concern. 4Grinz has a duty to protect the casino and its players.

At the one-hour mark, you had zero confirmations on your first deposit and it was flagged. You had already gambled the funds, so ____ waited, hoping for them to clear. You made a second deposit, but lost that as well, and after an hour with no confirmations, it too was flagged. ___ had made a note and gave the crew a heads-up. It was then you made a third deposit, played for more than an hour with zero confirmations, when your account was deactivated. All three of your deposits were still pending with zero confirmations. Of the three, one was flagged, one marked as a double-spend, and the other as fraud. Fraud attempts automatically deactivate your account. Your statement,

“That was not cool on his [___] end and I am going to read over the rules because if others transactions are only now confirming that could of been a loss for players getting their winning seized due to a Network DNS Attack,”

suggests there may have been more delayed deposits or that 4Grinz had unfairly seized player funds. Rest assured, only your deposits were delayed that day. Payments by 4Grinz to other players cleared immediately. It was business as usual. There was also no evidence of a DDoS attack, as dozens of 4Grinz player deposits received at least one confirmation within seconds. I believe that if even one deposit had been delayed that night, and another player’s name was nestled next to yours on the list of delayed transactions in the admin, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Double-spends are fraud. They only clear when the player wins, and we have never experienced a double-spend clearing when a player loses. Hence, the rules put in place by 4Grinz are reasonable, as they cannot sustain themselves with double-spends against a modest 1-2% house edge. When playing with unconfirmed bitcoin deposits, the casino (in this case 4Grinz) essentially “fronts” you the funds to gamble. This is called a marker and It pays your bets and fees until your bitcoin finallyclears. If a marker continues to accrue jackpot contributions, fees to providers, and platform fees, all from a modest pool of commissions, the marker is pulled. In this case, you had three unpaid markers while racking up 20% fees against your winnings. The claim that merchants are not injured by double- spends is untrue. And, if that’s your mentality, then it’s probably best that 4Grinz has such rules in place. Also, the rules aren’t there because of you. They’ve been there for quite some time. I feel that 4Grinz was gracious in your case because of the protections in place, and the house simply took the marker back. Your bets were reversed and play was null and void – just like it is states in the Terms and Conditions. No one was injured, and any other casino suspecting fraud would have seized your deposits. So would a brick-and-mortar, except that you’d be escorted out the door, possibly in handcuffs. The decision made by 4Grinz was fair and not unusual. After realizing that your account had been deactivated, you visited the chat, spoke with ____, and he informed you of the situation. I’m assuming that’s when you contacted me through Skype. You must admit, with all other transactions processing as usual through the Blockchain, no DDS attacks, and only your transactions pending for five hours, your activity was reasonably regarded as suspicious. You continued to reveal to me your deep knowledge and understanding of core crypto tech and development capabilities. You sent me images of your complex office server and computer equipment, and even offered me private “tip” if 4Grinz paid you your winnings so long as I agreed to, “keep this all to yourself.”

An hour passed in the chat when you instructed me to click on blockchain transaction URL. Since I was not able to access any of your transaction URLs because they had not confirmed through Cubits, I was curious. You said, “watch this.” So, I called Lee to my office and together we clicked the URL. I said I was ready, and within moments we both witnessed the priority on the blockchain change from blank to “high priority.” This remarkable and instantaneous change, admittedly made by you, proved that something remarkable had just occurred. You boasted about. This act alone solidified _____ decision to deactivate your account and notify 4Grinz management.

Even though it was quite late, 4Grinz was nice enough to review the case immediately. Their determination was a clear case of fraud in the form of three double-spends. The decision was to seize your funds – at least until further investigation the next morning. Lee requested a refund on your deposits if and when they cleared, based on 4Grinz terms. They agreed to the terms so long as all deposits cleared. Once the deposits cleared Cubits, you were informed of the decision, agreed to the terms and were instructed to confirm a web wallet address. Once confirmed, ___ forwarded the information to 4Grinz and they refunded your initial deposits minus the 20% to cover pending fees. It was then that you returned to the chat, expressed relief that 4Grinz had not seized your entire balance, and thanked Lee for “at least returning the deposits.” You even said, “that was cool of you,” essentially putting the matter to rest.

“ was being hit with a DDOS during that time some transactions were delayed up to a couple days. My wallet provider Yallet uses the API.”

Except, here’s the catch; the same wallet you claimed was being attacked, worked perfectly when 4Grinz returned the deposits, and the first of six confirmations was completed in seconds.

“I just was brought onto the core team at ______ 2 days ago as I am running all my crypto developments through there now. They are the most prominent PR/Marketing and Development firm in the world. This backs my credibility further.”

Congratulations on the position, but this and previous claims of being an experienced crypto developer raise more suspicion, not less.

My loyalty to 4Grinz, ____, and it’s staff is unwavering. While I respect players and enjoy interacting with them, I won’t be influenced or bribed. Nor will I keep secrets or try to persuade 4Grinz staff when the evidence is clear and the decision fair. ____ did what was best for you and the casino. 4Grinz management came to the chat in the middle of the night to review your case, by your request, after your account had already been suspended. That says a lot about their integrity and dedication. No one was injured and, certainly no one gained. I’d say that’s a pretty reasonable outcome. Regardless of whether it was a manual attempt by you or a delay by your own web wallet, it was not caused by the Blockchain, a DDS attack, 4Grinz, or Cubits. So, the onerous is on your wallet or you – for delaying the confirmations through what appears to be third-party software.

4Grinz is for entertainment purposes only. It’s not a financial institution. It’s a business that works hard to ensure fair play, offers extremely generous returns, and is there 24/7 to answer any inquiries. That’s where I come in, but I can assure you, we don’t often address player concerns, because there aren’t many.

4Grinz is a crack team of casino managers and agents with decades of experience. ____ is our bitcoin guru with a vast support system. The Softswiss platform is incredibly comprehensive, reliable, and their team of managers and developers are committed to ensuring the highest standards. We couldn’t ask for better personal service. Cubits is the safest and most efficient payment processor we have the pleasure of using, and our many game hosts are second to none. We feel fortunate to be surrounded by such competence, high-quality products, services, and professionalism.

I invite you to share this correspondence with Cubits and your web wallet, as the decision made by 4Grinz is final. This is not open to appeal. Your account has been suspended. I wish you all the best in your new position at _____ and future endeavors, and am certain you and all parties now involved will understand our position.



Wisewalrus PR 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino

cc. A copy of this correspondence will be sent to the recipient,

Softswiss, Cubits, any known participating party, and 4Grinz management and staff.

RE: 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino Response Continued

———- Forwarded message —————
From: 4GrinZStaff
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:37 PM Subject:
Re: 4Grinz Complaint Response
To: Me
Cc: suppor­[email protected]­oft­swi­, wisewa­lru­spr­@gm­, [email protected]

To all cc’d on this “Response to Complaint” letter regarding user ____, customer ____.
Player submitted a link to a Blockchain announcement posted on



We are aware of the Blockchain issue and 4Grinz Bitcoin Casino did experience nearly a dozen delays on Wednesday, 12 October. Some transactions pending several hours. All player flags noted in our admin on that day were lifted and cash out requests processed once deposits cleared through Cubits. No player accounts were noted as fraud and all winnings were paid.

However, the incident ______ claims affected his transactions did not occur on 12 October, and the Blockchain issue lasted only a few hours, so the link and Blockchain are neither related to his issue nor relevant.

Warmest regards,

4Grinz Bitcoin Casino


The images below are deposits spent over time at 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino, please forgive me for them being out of order and hopefully not duplicates I have so much data on this mess. Included are the ones in question accused as fraud. I thought I was a good customer. I would not want to see how a bad customer is treated after all this.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 24, 2016.

Images mentioned above:

maxlogan United States
posted on November 24, 2016.

Some of the deposits I located that I made over the last year at 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino. My apologies for them being not in chronological order and hopefully no duplicates;

maxlogan United States
posted on November 24, 2016.

The rest of the deposit images that I located that were made to the 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino;

maxlogan United States
posted on November 25, 2016.

There are still slow confirmation issues on occassion with my 'Yallet' Mobile Bitcoin Wallet. This has been happening since last February but not often. On 10-11-2016 the three deposits made at 4GrinZ was the first time it ever happened there. That day all 3 confirmed in 333 minutes and 4GrinZ was paid. However the first time it happened last February I was purchasing an item and it took 3 days to confirm. Three days ago I made 3 deposits at 3 different locations and they have taken 72 hours. The difference between the three events being last February, 10-11-2016 at 4GrinZ and just 3 days ago is this. Of the three different events since February the deposits made at 4GrinZ confirmed the fastest. The big difference between the three events also is that I did not win money last February and I did not win money on the event 3 days ago. The People/Businesses that this happened to last February and just 3 days ago have been very understanding and are not concerned and they don't know me. 4GrinZ knew me well because I spent a fortune playing there over nearly a year and 4GrinZ with the money in their possession and confirmed made up their minds immediately to not pay out the winnings but instead refund 80% of the sum total of the 3 confirmed deposits that night and they figured by attacking my character and calling me a fraud and saying I tried to bribe them to get my winnings, that I would of went away. If they did not immediately start attacking my character and calling me a fraud I might of considered it. But I was shocked their reaction in 'Live Chat' it was like I never spent a dollar there before and no matter what I said it was thrown back at me and twisted. This has been the worst experience in my life practically. The more time that goes by and the more professionals that investigate this from a neutral standpoint the better.

Below is a message to me from 'Yallet Bitcoin Wallet & Scorechain' in which they copied '4GrinZ'with a message to them based on the data they are still finding behind the actual cause of these occasional slow confirmation transactions. 'Cubits' was copied also;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Support - Yallet
Date: Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: 3 days no confirmation on deposits!! Help me!!??
To: ------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----
Cc: Austin Johnson , [email protected]

Hi --------,

We found the bug. It is due to the recent increase over 500000 satoshis by kb to be confirmed in the first or second block. Yallet app doesn't like values over 500000 because it was considered "too high" and reduced as a security :(.

As a temporary fix, we just fixed our API to not ask for more than 500,000 satoshis per KB for fees so the mobile app doesn't get confused. We will push a 1.5.2 version that will totally remove this limit. Sorry for the problem it may have cause. We included 4grinz and Cubits support in copy of this email. What is the relation between the two company?

Please guys from 4grinz, please take the necessary actions to refund ---------- with the Bitcoins he won on your site and please be gentlemans regarding this slow confirmation times issue. We hope that this will not happen again but you guys should really find another way to deal with those issues. 4 hours confirmations CAN happen!

Best regards,

The Yallet Team / Scorechain

posted on November 25, 2016.

We suggest this player take Yallet's advice and stop using this service for bitcoin gambling purposes. It's also important to clarify that the transactions took much longer than six hours to clear. Neither Yallet, nor Cubits influence our terms. Double-spends are conducted through third-party software. There were no delays on the blockchain that day. Cubits processed the payment without issue and we have never claimed otherwise. However, Cubits can't process a payment to 4Grinz until it receives at least six confirmations. We encourage the player to take Yallet's advice.

On 25 November 2016 at 09:44, Support - Yallet wrote:

Hello ****,

Please STOP using our wallet for gambling because it's seems fees set are too low. (Given your screenshots). We will push an update in the next few days. Please use another wallet like Breadwallet.

We don't understand at the moment in which exact situation the bug is produced.

Thank you for your understanding,

The Yallet team

maxlogan United States
posted on November 27, 2016.

Dear 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino,

Its been determined by 'Yallet Bitcoin Wallet' & 'Scorechain' plus 'The Cubits Team' (your payment provider) that the transactions were neither fraudulent or double spends. They were clean and only delayed because of an issue with 'Yallet Bitcoin Wallet' & '' related to an API issue and a bug that affects fees that 'Yallet' is still working to fix and anyone can contact [email protected] and [email protected] in order the verify this matched with the messages submitted in this complaint thread. Anyone can see this was not intentional and easily determine themselves including viewing the many substancial sized clean deposits made over the course of a year at 4GrinZ it would be extremely out of character to suddenly attempt a double spend. Professionally 4GrinZ is the only hold out here, 'Yallet' 'Scorechain' & 'Cubits' are standing by their conclusions that the transactions were clean and you should pay. There is nothing else to discuss.

In the long thread of messages in which you cherry picked 'Yallet' saying to stop using their wallet for now until its fixed, is indeed good advice. However the best advice was the one message in that long thread, the only one that 'Yallet' & 'Scorechain' copied you (4GrinZ) & the awesome people at 'The Cubits Team' specifically recommended this to you below;


Please guys from 4grinz, please take the necessary actions to refund ---------- with the Bitcoins he won on your site and please be gentlemans regarding this slow confirmation times issue. We hope that this will not happen again but you guys should really find another way to deal with those issues. 4 hours confirmations CAN happen!

Best regards,

The Yallet Team / Scorechain


AskGamblers- Thank you for providing this venue. Hopefully it has served a purpose. However its very clear that even if you were to rule in the favor of the player here it would make no difference because they made up their minds not to pay before the transactions cleared. The adhomenum attacks are a clear sign of a defeated opponent in any debate, still in order to take them there must be some light at the end of the tunnel which this is lacking. 4GrinZ is never going to pay the winnings, The Coin Back, the remaining 20% sum total of the 3 confirmed deposits in question from that day 10-11-2016, they are always going to sling ad-homonyms and use Straw-man arguments and logical fallacies, just as I am always going to point them out and defend my self. At this point the money (over $4k) means nothing and my reputation means everything. I offered a fair resolution of stopping the character assassinations and refunding the remaining 20% of the sum total of those 3 deposits (less than $300) plus the Coin Back ( if any) but they counted by breaking your rules and trying to accuse me of mental illness, plus attempts to constantly break your rules and identify me. I believe much more of this thread going back and forth could only produce negative effects. It is of hope that you weigh in and conclude this soon. Otherwise this will go on forever and regardless most likely will never be resolved.

posted on November 28, 2016.

Please note that 4Grinz has never received emails from either Yallet or Cubits, not regarding this or any other matter. We have reached out to both Yallet and Cubits using the support email addresses that appear on the correspondence provided by the individual making the complaint an no one from either party have responded.

posted on November 29, 2016.

Dear @maxlogan

Please keep in mind that this post has been removed by the AskGamblers Complaints Team due to violation of the AGCCS Terms and namely:

"The information exchanged during the complaint process between player and AskGamblers, and casino representatives and AskGamblers is strictly confidential and is not disclosed to third parties. "

Please be informed that not following strictly the AGCCS Terms and guidelines may result in getting your complaint rejected.

maxlogan United States
posted on November 29, 2016.

Dear 4GrinZ

FYI- See All Below;

I was forwarded the emails between 'Yallet/Scorechain', 'Cubits' & 'AskGamblers' and 'Yallet/Scorechain' provided a very detailed explanation into the cause of those delays on those 3 transactions on 10-11-2016 that has caused so much grief. I spent far to much money here and value everything about the Bitcoi­n/C­ryp­toc­urrency Industry which has been the most important aspect of my life for the last many years for me to jeopardize that and throw it all away.

*Due to ‘AskGamblers’ Terms and Conditions regarding Complaints I can’t share the content of the actual Conversations that I was made privy to thanks to ‘Yallet/Scorechain’. I respect AskGamblers providing this venue very much and do not want to violate any terms here.

The evidence submitted by ‘Yallet/Scorechain’ & ‘Cubits’ over the course of this ordeal beginning 10-11-2016 up until now, clearly says it all in my opinion, and that is "I was acting in bad faith and my transaction deposits were clean no double spending and I deserve to be paid.”

I believe I can share the below communications between myself ‘Yallet/Scorechain’& ‘The Cubits’Team’ 4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino’s Bitcoin Payments Provider.

To verify all emails regarding the evidence based on the conclusions after thorough and Independent Investigations by ‘Yallet/Scorechain’ and ’The Cubits Team' please contact them at the addresses & Official Websites listed below:

‘Cubits’ [email protected] or go to the contact section of ’The Cubits Website’- https:­//c­ubi­ts.c­om­/co­ntacts

‘Yalle­t’s­upp­ort­@ya­lle­ or go to the contact section of their website- https:­//y­all­et.c­om­/su­pport/

‘Scorechain’ - https:­//w­ww.s­co­rec­hai­n.c­om/­contact

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: me<---------------------------------------------------------------------->
Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 5:19 AM
Subject: This cant be true?
To: [email protected], Support - Yallet , ME<———————————————>

"Please note that 4Grinz has never received emails from either Yallet or Cubits, not regarding this or any other matter. We have reached out to both Yallet and Cubits using the support email addresses that appear on the correspondence provided by the individual making the complaint an no one from either party have responded."

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Support - Yallet
Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: This cant be true?
To: ME <----------------------------->
Cc: [email protected], Support - Yallet , Me <------------------------>

Hi ____________,

4grinz support was in copy of some emails, you can check it yourself.
We just replied to AskGamblers that were asking us to authentify our emails. What we just did.
We explained to them our bug in details, we forward you that explanation.

Best regards,

The Yallet team

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Support Officer
Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: This cant be true?
To: Support - Yallet
Cc: ME <----------------------------->, ME <----------------------------------->

Dear all,

This does not sound good.
We were always open to talk to 4grinz and responded them (sometimes privately).

Kind regards,
Your Cubits Team

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Support - Yallet
Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 5:48 AM
Subject: Fwd: Regarding AskGamblers Complaint
To: ME <----------------------------------->, ME <------------------------------------->

For your information, we forward you our reply to AskGamblers. We think it's good to wait and see their response in the forum thread. We're really sorry for what happened to you and hope you will be reimbursed of any missing bitcoins. We did our best to explain the issue to AskGamblers. Next time, be careful with wallets when transactions doesn't confirm in less than 1 hour, it is a sign that something went wrong with the fees. Bitcoin is still a "beta" project (version 0.13.1) and we all need to be more careful about issue like this one. We insist on the fact that any special event can delay confirmation times in the Bitcoin blockchain and that services like 4grinz shouldn't be used as is.

Best regards,

The Yallet team

posted on December 5, 2016.

Dear @maxlogan,

During the course of the investigation conducted by AskGamblers Complaints Team together with representatives of Cubits, Yallet and SoftSwiss it became clear that the case was certainly not referring to a 'double-spend' activity and the winnings which player won during their session were derived from a legitimate deposit. As a result, 4grinz casino team agreed to pay you the wrongfully confiscated amount.

Please confirm you have been credited the amount so that we could close this complaint accordingly.

Thanks for cooperating the AskGamblers Complaints Team.

maxlogan United States
posted on December 6, 2016.

Dear AskGamblers,

This is spectacular news!! I thank you for everything including providing this venue along with 'Yalle­t'/­'Sc­ore­chain' and 'The Cubits Team', 'Softswiss Gaming' for your hard work and most importantly '4GrinZ Bitcoin Casino' for agreeing to pay the 6.775 Bitcoin in Winnings and agreeing with the conclusions concurrently with this body.

However I have not yet received this payment which is odd but hopefully easily explained. I have notified Askgamblers staff that no payment has arrived verifiable here by checking as I am to assume that the payment would be made to the same address that had always been used there including on the 3 deposits that were in question and are now solved my 'Yallet Bitcoin Mobile Wallet address' BTC: 18GYsu­tdr­zGD­GEE­Xtq­Ksj­971­mEx­jdBjD2u


I look forward to receiving these winnings finally after nearly 2 months of hell would be the only way to explain it. Once the funds have been received into my wallet I will notify AskGamblers and leave a confirmation of such below in order to close this as resolved. I am hoping my next comment can conclude this matter.

Dear 4GrinZ- I am waiting for you to send the funds!

maxlogan United States
posted on December 7, 2016.

Thank you '4GrinZ' for honoring your word!!

Thank you Ask Gamblers for the venue and the excellent work!!!

Thank you 'Cubits' for standing behind me since the beginning.

Thank you 'Yallet/Scorechain' for standing behind me since the beginning and beyond.

Thank you to 'mBit' for going out of your way for me and at the same time lending your support to '4GrinZ' and not abandoning them.

Thank you for the opportunity to prove to the public that I acted in good faith and I thank you for not choosing sides and sticking to your morals and allowing the process to work its way out.

This complaint is closed and successfully resolved. Funds Received!!!

posted on December 7, 2016.

Based on submitter's last post AskGamblers Complaints Team consider this case as Resolved and it is officially closed now.

Thank you all for your cooperation.