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Lotus Asia Casino - Account closure due to term not mentioned in T&C and confiscated deposit

Complaint Info
Disputed casino Lotus Asia Casino
Reason Account closure
Posted on August 27, 2014

I have been playing in Lotus group casinos without problems for more than a year (first deposit 11 May 2013) until 11 August 2014 when they have excluded me from all 3 of their casinos (Lotus Asia, Black Lotus, Fone Casino). I was trying to find reason why and answers through email communication for a week with a support stuff, but that was bad idea. They were not giving me answers, ignoring my questions and proves, lying about my last deposit and refused to refund me, and finally stopped responding at all. So I am forced to make a public claim, at least to warn other players on their unprofessional, unfair and corrupt behavior.

So let's start from beginning. Their official explanation for my exclusion is "high bonus ratio". And they pointed me to their bonus terms, as I apparently broke their bonus terms.
First and most important thing - there is no mention of phrase "bonus ratio", neither in their general nor in their bonus terms and conditions (last check today 21 August). So player doesn't know about it until is notified from them. And when is notified, like in my case, then it's too late. Excluding player due to "high bonus ratio", the term not mentioned in terms and conditions and for which player doesn't know, is very unfair and unprofessional.

Of course, I have tried everything to understand that reason for exclusion, "high bonus ratio". So I have sent them 8 emails trying to find answers on following questions:
- What is the bonus ratio formula, i.e. how the bonus ratio is calculated?
- What is mine exact bonus ratio?
- What is the limit number in percentage when the bonus ratio becomes (too) high?
- What is my total amount of used bonus and total amount of real cash won playing bonus?

Of a 3 persons of their stuff for email support, no one has not answered me on any of my above questions, they have totally ignored me. Partially helpful was chat operator whom I contacted immediately after the exclusion, who said that my bonus ratio is 254.61% and the bonus ratio is bonuses claimed over deposits. However that means nothing without confirmation of a support stuff, like they didn't want to confirm that.

And now comes interesting part. Obviously the bonus ratio, according to chat operator's words, is somehow related to total deposit amount. I have stated several times in emails to them that I have made 18 deposits to Lotus group casinos (Black Lotus, Lotus Asia, Fone casino) with a total amount of $370. Indeed total deposit amount is related to bonus ratio, and that's why one of their support has reviewed my account regarding my deposits, and stated that my total deposit amount is $240 !

It is hard to believe - they cannot do a simple thing of correctly summarizing my deposits. They have missed for more than 50%, as my total deposit amount is $370. After that I have sent them all my transactions details of deposits from my Skrill and EcoPayz accounts and 1 about my Credit card deposit. They have received those transactions details and didn't do anything regarding that.

So, as they have wrong info about my total deposit amount which is actually higher for more then 50%, they have wrong info about my "bonus ratio" which is actually much lower. Because they are related - it's simply matter of a math. They didn't want to tell me exact formula how the bonus ratio is calculated, but if we use chat operator's words about it, it is something like this: total bonus used / total deposits made = bonus ratio.

I suppose they have intentionally presented much lower total deposit amount to justify "high bonus ratio" and reason for my exclusion.

Now something about bonuses, for which they didn't want to tell me anything about. I don't know how much is total amount of my used bonuses (don't have access to account anymore so I cannot calculate them). If we use above formula for bonus ratio and my actual total deposit of $370, it appears that my total of used bonuses is about $940. No way that is so high - because I have used only 1st welcome bonus for deposit match offer, and all my 17 subsequent deposit were without any bonus attached. So are left free bonus codes and free tournaments won, and my estimate of total bonus used is about $500.

Of all that bonuses, now I remember that I have actually won (i.e. made bonus play-through for cash-out) only ONE free bonus for cash-out of about $200. ALL my others bonuses were lost. So I have deposited $370 and made cash-out of about $200 of one free bonus.

And finally the ugly part of this story. I have made my last deposit of $20 on 9 August and immediately put that money in their 2 Manic Monday tournaments (blackjack and slots, with buy-in of $10 each) which took place 11-12 August. I have been regular player in their real money tournaments and made most of my cash-outs winning top positions in them.
But as I mentioned on start, I was excluded on 11 August so I couldn't play them. That's why I have asked them for a refund of my last deposit.

I couldn't believe their support member T.B. answered that I have played video poker with my last deposit and that's why they cannot refund me. It is simply a lie, I didn't played video poker but joined tournaments. I have tried to explain him several times but nothing. He could easily check if I joined these tournaments or not - but obviously doesn't want to.

Unfortunately due to my exclusion I wasn't able to take screenshot of my position on leader-board in 2 Monic Monday tournaments held 11-12 August. But there are other players playing same tournaments, and they could see my nick "nex" on leader-board - with starting credits untouched due to exclusion.

So apparently reputable casino is lying to save $20. What to say about it?

To conclude this complaint - they owe me a reason for unfair exclusion and they owe me $20 of my last unused deposit left after exclusion. I will not accept their totally arbitrary reason which is "high bonus ratio". Especially because:
- that phrase is not even mentioned in their terms and conditions
- they didn't provide me any explanation about it, neither some info or warning prior the exclusion, nor after that, despite my numerous questions about it
- I have won only one free bonus of about $200 so there is no way I have abused their bonus system
- they have wrong info ($240) about my total deposit amount, which is related to bonus ratio, and didn't do anything when I have sent them proves of my correct total deposit amount ($370) - for that reason I will send those proves (transactions details of all my deposits) to Askgamblers

I hope at least that my experience will help other players who play in their casinos - beware of their unmentioned and arbitrary term "bonus ratio".

Posted on August 25, 2014

Dear Valued Player...

First let me apologize for the delay in responding to you. It was quite an elaborate post and I just thought I would get all the information required before replying. Please note I enlisted the support from our Call Centre Manager and Fraud Department to provide you with more than just adequate information and reasoning behind the process followed.

So lets get right to it and see if I can answer your questions below one step at a time.

1. After reviewing your account and style of play as well as the financials on your account, it seems our Fraud Department did lock your account and excluded your from our casino's because you showed the gameplay and intent to defraud the casino by abusing our bonus system. As a general T&C's any and all casino's protect themselves against such abuse by following a pattern of play and/or bonus and cashin ratio's but obviously the account is audited before such a decision is taken.

You mentioned in your post that we dont mention anything about "bonus ratio" in our terms which you generally wont find at any online casino. But we do mention Bonus Abuser, Bonus Abuser, Promotion Abuse etc...Bonus Ratio is merely calculation or rather a formula used to determine if a player is any of the mentioned terms above. This is also mentioned in our terms and conditions located on this link http:/­/ww­w.l­otu­sas­iac­asi­no.c­om­/en­-US­/Pr­omo­tio­nal­-Bo­nus­2.html so I would like to direct you to the points below which basically outline Bonus Abuse.

30. If a player has been identified by Lotus Asia Casino as a bonus abuser, then Lotus Asia Casinoreserves the right to deny a player any download bonus on their first deposit. In such a case, the original deposit will be refunded. However, the player would be barred from gaining any advantage from the bonus promotion they are judged to have abused or wrongly used.
31. A bonus abuser is defined as a player who makes use of promotional bonus money to dishonestly profit from bonus promotions that are offered in good faith by the Casino with a view to gaining player loyalty. A bonus abuser is generally defined as a player who accepts bonuses, wagers the minimum amount and withdraws as soon as possible. Lotus Asia Casino reserves the right to take appropriate action against such a player.
32. In addition, Lotus Asia casino also reserves the right to refuse a promotional bonus for any reason considered to be valid and appropriate including, but not restricted to, promotion abuse by a player.
41. Non- adherence or disagreement with any promotional terms and conditions shall be considered to be 'Promotion Abuse'. In such instances, Lotus Asia Casino Management reserves the right to take appropriate action in order to promote a gaming experience that is fair, entertaining and beneficial to all parties involved.

2. Moving onto your next concern on how exactly the bonus ratio is determined or calculated. Very simple actually for Bonus Ratio we look at the total deposits and total bonuses claimed on your account. For Cashin Ratio we look at total deposits against total cashins...I have attached a screenshot (Recon.png) of a recon across all your Lotus casino's and summarized it as well to get an average for the group.

3. Regarding the funds that were in your account at the time the it was closed, after speaking to our Fraud team we see that you didn’t actually have it in your bank roll (cashier) but rather entered 2 Tourneys as you mentioned in your post and then reversed one of the entry fees and played a little Video Poker. We will take ownership here and I need to stress that this was not intentional to defraud you as a player of your $10, we”ll call it human error at best. However after chatting to my Fraud Team I got them to refund you with a $20 to your eco card account we have on file and this was done last week already so it should reflect shortly.

To summarize everything, you have been excluded from all 3 Lotus brands because our Fraud Department has deemed you a Bonus Abuser, the whole confusion around the bonus ratio and our terms and conditions have been now cleared up but please do let me know if you need anything explained again, and the funds which were refunded to your eco card account should reflect shortly as it was done on Friday afternoon.

I hope the information I have provided you answers all your questions if not you are more than welcome to get in touch.


Affiliate Manager

Posted on August 26, 2014

First regarding refund - yes I got money to EcoPayz on Friday 22 August, thanks.
OK if it is human error - just to say that I did reverse 1 entry in tournament, but not to play video poker. I have transferred $10 from Lotus Asia to Fone casino and entered same tournaments there. So it was $10 in slots tournament in Lotus Asia and $10 in blackjack tournament in Fone casino left after I am excluded.

Regarding deposits and bonus ratio - now is completely different data about it by your side. In your email I was notified that my total deposit amount is $240, now from your table is $430. From my statistics and transactions which I posted above in 1st message it is $370 (maybe I omitted few transactions). Also by your chat operator I was notified that my bonus ratio is 254.61%, now the table shows it is 146.67%. This percentage from table is much more realistic.

It is big difference and I don't understand why you mentioned in emails that the reason for my exclusion is "high bonus ratio". 146% is still high ratio or it was human error again?

I will state again - I have actually won (i.e. made bonus play-through for cash-out) only ONE free bonus for cash-out of about $200. All my others bonuses were lost, and all my payouts were made playing with real money, except that one free bonus won of about $200. If you have different amount about real cash made from bonuses, please state how much it is.

So I still don't now how exactly I have abused your bonus system. You have wrote, "because you showed the gameplay and intent to defraud the casino by abusing our bonus system".
Can you explain how exactly, as I really don't know what I was doing wrong?
Why you didn't warn me before, or excluded me from all bonuses until the bonus issue is solved?
Looking forward to your explanation of my reportedly wrong gameplay and intent regarding bonuses.

Posted on August 26, 2014

Dear Valued Player...

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

For the refund, you are most welcome.

For the Bonus Ratio, actually its not completely different as the ratio provided by the operator at time (254.61%) which was the actually ratio for Black Lotus Casino only which is still very high any way you look at it.

The Summary table was a total of all your casino accounts with Lotus Casino group. Its the total deposit, Bonus and Cashin amounts which I have summarized for you. The operator who initially provided you with the bonus ratio is still correct as they were referring to the Black Lotus Casino only and I see you are referring to my table which is the summary of all 3 casinos. So to correct you, nothing has changed nor have we provided you with incorrect stats. Please also note that I personally sat with the respective departments and got the information from our systems, So I can assure you that what I have provided is indeed correct and no human error or omitted results.

Regarding the bonus ratio across all casinos (146.67%), again this is an average. Your bonus ration on Black Lotus Casino was and still is 254.61% and there is no human error there and it still remains a very high bonus ratio and thus the fraud department has excluded you from our casino's.

I cannot provide you with an explanation as to how you did it because this is a public forum for any and everyone to see, I'm hope you can understand as its giving away trade secrets.


Affiliate Manager

Posted on August 26, 2014

When I got answers from your chat operator regarding bonus ratio and your email support regarding my total deposit amount, they were not referring to particular casino, while I have asked them for my total bonus ratio and total deposit amount across all your casinos, because I have not excluded from just 1 casino but from all 3.

So that what you said is not true. I have 8 email responses from your support stuff and nowhere they have mentioned that the reason for my exclusion - "high bonus ratio" is only true for Black Lotus casino (254,61%). I can forward them to Askgamblers if needed.

For other 2 casinos regarding my bonus ratio, in Lotus Asia is low (55,64%) and there is no bonus ratio in Fone casino.

And the bonus ratio across all casinos is, as you said, average (146,67%).

Considering this, I have few questions. Nowhere in your terms is stated phrase "bonus ratio", therefore player doesn't know about it and it's not his job to calculate something for which he doesn't know.

As the reason for exclusion is "high bonus ratio" (unmentioned term), and it is only true for Black Lotus casino, why you have not warned me about this prior the exclusion?
Why you have also excluded me from other 2 casinos where my bonus ratio is low (Lotsus Asia) and not present (Fone casino)?

Regarding this you wrote:
"I cannot provide you with an explanation as to how you did it because this is a public forum for any and everyone to see, I'm hope you can understand as its giving away trade secrets."

I have asked you (your support stuff) what is wrong with my gameplay several times in emails and also didn't get answer. If you don't want to provide explanation, for security or other reasons, fine, I will not ask you again. That is the reason I still consider your decision arbitrary.

Posted on August 27, 2014

Dear Valued Player

Lotus Asia Casino, Black Lotus Casino & Fone Casino are all part of 1 casino group. Any adverse actions taken on one casino will definitey affect you within the casino group as a whole. Should we find any player for example trying to defraud 1 casino we have the right to take any and all actions within the casino group which are neccessary to protect ourselves.

So, while I have been trying assist and provide you with accurate information from the start it was your choice to take the information and twist it to bennefit you. I have been nothing but helpfull and open with all details provided and you choose to avoid that and divert by mentioning that Bonus Ratio is not in our terms. I have been diplomatic and tried time and time again to re-assure you that the actions taken by the casino was justified. So Im going to try another approach because it seems you understand much more about Bonus Abuse than you led us to believe.

After reviewing your account we picked up that Bonus Abuse has been an issue before and the casino had locked you out prior to this for the very same reason. This leads us to believe that this is definitely an ongoing issue and a clear pattern of abuse is shown. You asked why not exclude you from Black Lotus only as this was the casino with High Bonus Ratio and its for this very specific reason, merely so that the casino can protect itself from what clearly is a Bonus Abuser. Therefore if a player is a bonus abuser on Black Lotus Casino the likelhood of him/her trying it again with another casino is pretty high.

I have all the neccessary notes, emails and chats which clearly shows that Bonus Abuse is a term you are very firmiliar with and have opted not include them here on a public forum, however should require this information for verification I will be more than happy to supply all the neccessary information.


Affiliate Manager

Posted on August 27, 2014

Upon the information and evidence provided on behalf Lotus Asia Casino management within their latest post, AskGamblers Complaints Team confirm and justify the casino actions. In addition, the player got their deposit back.

Based on the above, AskGamblers Complaints Team consider this case as Resolved and it is now officially closed. In case of a disagreement with our decision we remind player that further assistance on this matter could be requested from the relevant regulatory body.

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