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Account closure due to term not mentioned in T&C and confiscated deposit


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By vasco
11 years ago
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I have been playing in Lotus group casinos without problems for more than a year (first deposit 11 May 2013) until 11 August 2014 when they have excluded me from all 3 of their casinos (Lotus Asia, Black Lotus, Fone Casino). I was trying to find reason why and answers through email communication for a week with a support stuff, but that was bad idea. They were not giving me answers, ignoring my questions and proves, lying about my last deposit and refused to refund me, and finally stopped responding at all. So I am forced to make a public claim, at least to warn other players on their unprofessional, unfair and corrupt behavior.

So let's start from beginning. Their official explanation for my exclusion is "high bonus ratio". And they pointed me to their bonus terms, as I apparently broke their bonus terms.
First and most important thing - there is no mention of phrase "bonus ratio", neither in their general nor in their bonus terms and conditions (last check today 21 August). So player doesn't know about it until is notified from them. And when is notified, like in my case, then it's too late. Excluding player due to "high bonus ratio", the term not mentioned in terms and conditions and for which player doesn't know, is very unfair and unprofessional.

Of course, I have tried everything to understand that reason for exclusion, "high bonus ratio". So I have sent them 8 emails trying to find answers on following questions:
- What is the bonus ratio formula, i.e. how the bonus ratio is calculated?
- What is mine exact bonus ratio?
- What is the limit number in percentage when the bonus ratio becomes (too) high?
- What is my total amount of used bonus and total amount of real cash won playing bonus?

Of a 3 persons of their stuff for email support, no one has not answered me on any of my above questions, they have totally ignored me. Partially helpful was chat operator whom I contacted immediately after the exclusion, who said that my bonus ratio is 254.61% and the bonus ratio is bonuses claimed over deposits. However that means nothing without confirmation of a support stuff, like they didn't want to confirm that.

And now comes interesting part. Obviously the bonus ratio, according to chat operator's words, is somehow related to total deposit amount. I have stated several times in emails to them that I have made 18 deposits to Lotus group casinos (Black Lotus, Lotus Asia, Fone casino) with a total amount of $370. Indeed total deposit amount is related to bonus ratio, and that's why one of their support has reviewed my account regarding my deposits, and stated that my total deposit amount is $240 !

It is hard to believe - they cannot do a simple thing of correctly summarizing my deposits. They have missed for more than 50%, as my total deposit amount is $370. After that I have sent them all my transactions details of deposits from my Skrill and EcoPayz accounts and 1 about my Credit card deposit. They have received those transactions details and didn't do anything regarding that.

So, as they have wrong info about my total deposit amount which is actually higher for more then 50%, they have wrong info about my "bonus ratio" which is actually much lower. Because they are related - it's simply matter of a math. They didn't want to tell me exact formula how the bonus ratio is calculated, but if we use chat operator's words about it, it is something like this: total bonus used / total deposits made = bonus ratio.

I suppose they have intentionally presented much lower total deposit amount to justify "high bonus ratio" and reason for my exclusion.

Now something about bonuses, for which they didn't want to tell me anything about. I don't know how much is total amount of my used bonuses (don't have access to account anymore so I cannot calculate them). If we use above formula for bonus ratio and my actual total deposit of $370, it appears that my total of used bonuses is about $940. No way that is so high - because I have used only 1st welcome bonus for deposit match offer, and all my 17 subsequent deposit were without any bonus attached. So are left free bonus codes and free tournaments won, and my estimate of total bonus used is about $500.

Of all that bonuses, now I remember that I have actually won (i.e. made bonus play-through for cash-out) only ONE free bonus for cash-out of about $200. ALL my others bonuses were lost. So I have deposited $370 and made cash-out of about $200 of one free bonus.

And finally the ugly part of this story. I have made my last deposit of $20 on 9 August and immediately put that money in their 2 Manic Monday tournaments (blackjack and slots, with buy-in of $10 each) which took place 11-12 August. I have been regular player in their real money tournaments and made most of my cash-outs winning top positions in them.
But as I mentioned on start, I was excluded on 11 August so I couldn't play them. That's why I have asked them for a refund of my last deposit.

I couldn't believe their support member T.B. answered that I have played video poker with my last deposit and that's why they cannot refund me. It is simply a lie, I didn't played video poker but joined tournaments. I have tried to explain him several times but nothing. He could easily check if I joined these tournaments or not - but obviously doesn't want to.

Unfortunately due to my exclusion I wasn't able to take screenshot of my position on leader-board in 2 Monic Monday tournaments held 11-12 August. But there are other players playing same tournaments, and they could see my nick "nex" on leader-board - with starting credits untouched due to exclusion.

So apparently reputable casino is lying to save $20. What to say about it?

To conclude this complaint - they owe me a reason for unfair exclusion and they owe me $20 of my last unused deposit left after exclusion. I will not accept their totally arbitrary reason which is "high bonus ratio". Especially because:
- that phrase is not even mentioned in their terms and conditions
- they didn't provide me any explanation about it, neither some info or warning prior the exclusion, nor after that, despite my numerous questions about it
- I have won only one free bonus of about $200 so there is no way I have abused their bonus system
- they have wrong info ($240) about my total deposit amount, which is related to bonus ratio, and didn't do anything when I have sent them proves of my correct total deposit amount ($370) - for that reason I will send those proves (transactions details of all my deposits) to Askgamblers

I hope at least that my experience will help other players who play in their casinos - beware of their unmentioned and arbitrary term "bonus ratio".
EcoPayz-deposits-220USD.jpg
Disputed Casino Lotus Asia Casino

Discussion

User name

Upon the information and evidence provided on behalf Lotus Asia Casino management within their latest post, AskGamblers Complaints Team confirm and justify the casino actions. In addition, the player got their deposit back.

Based on the above, AskGamblers Complaints Team consider this case as Resolved and it is now officially closed. In case of a disagreement with our decision we remind player that further assistance on this matter could be requested from the relevant regulatory body.

User name
Dear Valued Player

Lotus Asia Casino, Black Lotus Casino & Fone Casino are all part of 1 casino group. Any adverse actions taken on one casino will definitey affect you within the casino group as a whole. Should we find any player for example trying to defraud 1 casino we have the right to take any and all actions within the casino group which are neccessary to protect ourselves.

So, while I have been trying assist and provide you with accurate information from the start it was your choice to take the information and twist it to bennefit you. I have been nothing but helpfull and open with all details provided and you choose to avoid that and divert by mentioning that Bonus Ratio is not in our terms. I have been diplomatic and tried time and time again to re-assure you that the actions taken by the casino was justified. So Im going to try another approach because it seems you understand much more about Bonus Abuse than you led us to believe.

After reviewing your account we picked up that Bonus Abuse has been an issue before and the casino had locked you out prior to this for the very same reason. This leads us to believe that this is definitely an ongoing issue and a clear pattern of abuse is shown. You asked why not exclude you from Black Lotus only as this was the casino with High Bonus Ratio and its for this very specific reason, merely so that the casino can protect itself from what clearly is a Bonus Abuser. Therefore if a player is a bonus abuser on Black Lotus Casino the likelhood of him/her trying it again with another casino is pretty high.

I have all the neccessary notes, emails and chats which clearly shows that Bonus Abuse is a term you are very firmiliar with and have opted not include them here on a public forum, however should Askgamblers.com require this information for verification I will be more than happy to supply all the neccessary information.

Regards

Faizel
Affiliate Manager
www.lo­tus­aff­ili­ate­s.com
User name loyalty-level-2
When I got answers from your chat operator regarding bonus ratio and your email support regarding my total deposit amount, they were not referring to particular casino, while I have asked them for my total bonus ratio and total deposit amount across all your casinos, because I have not excluded from just 1 casino but from all 3.

So that what you said is not true. I have 8 email responses from your support stuff and nowhere they have mentioned that the reason for my exclusion - "high bonus ratio" is only true for Black Lotus casino (254,61%). I can forward them to Askgamblers if needed.

For other 2 casinos regarding my bonus ratio, in Lotus Asia is low (55,64%) and there is no bonus ratio in Fone casino.

And the bonus ratio across all casinos is, as you said, average (146,67%).

Considering this, I have few questions. Nowhere in your terms is stated phrase "bonus ratio", therefore player doesn't know about it and it's not his job to calculate something for which he doesn't know.

As the reason for exclusion is "high bonus ratio" (unmentioned term), and it is only true for Black Lotus casino, why you have not warned me about this prior the exclusion?
Why you have also excluded me from other 2 casinos where my bonus ratio is low (Lotsus Asia) and not present (Fone casino)?

Regarding this you wrote:
"I cannot provide you with an explanation as to how you did it because this is a public forum for any and everyone to see, I'm hope you can understand as its giving away trade secrets."

I have asked you (your support stuff) what is wrong with my gameplay several times in emails and also didn't get answer. If you don't want to provide explanation, for security or other reasons, fine, I will not ask you again. That is the reason I still consider your decision arbitrary.
User name
Dear Valued Player...

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

For the refund, you are most welcome.

For the Bonus Ratio, actually its not completely different as the ratio provided by the operator at time (254.61%) which was the actually ratio for Black Lotus Casino only which is still very high any way you look at it.

The Summary table was a total of all your casino accounts with Lotus Casino group. Its the total deposit, Bonus and Cashin amounts which I have summarized for you. The operator who initially provided you with the bonus ratio is still correct as they were referring to the Black Lotus Casino only and I see you are referring to my table which is the summary of all 3 casinos. So to correct you, nothing has changed nor have we provided you with incorrect stats. Please also note that I personally sat with the respective departments and got the information from our systems, So I can assure you that what I have provided is indeed correct and no human error or omitted results.

Regarding the bonus ratio across all casinos (146.67%), again this is an average. Your bonus ration on Black Lotus Casino was and still is 254.61% and there is no human error there and it still remains a very high bonus ratio and thus the fraud department has excluded you from our casino's.

I cannot provide you with an explanation as to how you did it because this is a public forum for any and everyone to see, I'm hope you can understand as its giving away trade secrets.

Regards

Faizel
Affiliate Manager
www.lo­tus­aff­ili­ate­s.com

Lotus Asia Casino Complaint Stats

Resolved 2 / 3
Avg. Amount $843
Avg. Complaint Duration 5 days
Avg. Response Time 2 days

Lotus Asia Casino Complaints

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Lotus Asia Casino sent me an unusable check
I made a withdrawal from Lotus Asia Casino on April 19th. All documentation for verification UPDATES (been playing there for a bit) were submitted by Monday. I was told the payout was issued on April 23rd. I waited and waited. I questioned them for a tracking number because it had been a long time. I finally received an email on May 4th, providing a tracking number and an apology because they had JUST then sent out the payment via check to me on that day. I had to withdraw using a check because the only other option was payment to a Visa card, which I do not use (I have prepaid or MasterCard). I got the check on May 8th and deposited it into my checking account. The bank rejected the check stating it was fraudulent. I'm not sure if it was the bank or the casino but I have cashed in overseas checks with that bank before (with other casinos) and no issue. I contacted Lotus Asia Monday and talked to Jeremy. He told me someone would call me the next day. No one called. I called back and talked to Lisa. She told me they would put a stop payment on the check and asked for the check itself to be in my hands and be torn into. I had to go to the bank and get the check itself (NOT easy) and tore it into and sent that picture. I was told then that the canceled check usually takes one to five days to be resolved but with the photo of the check, it would be expedited. Every day since, I've gotten nothing but excuses. They have received no word on if the check has been canceled. They won't issue my payout (to my MasterCard that they agreed to do, after all this) until this canceled check thing has been resolved. They asked me for my FULL MasterCard details so they could send the money to the card. That was super uncomfortable. It is now Friday (May 15th) and no end in sight! I will enclose their emails to me, and my pictures. Please help! I believe they are stalling and may not even be trying to pay me! The payout they owe me is $1869.
Status unsolved Unresolved
$1,869