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BetChain Casino - Applying undisclosed deposit fees

RESOLVED
txraider08 United States
Posted on October 9, 2017.

On 9/5 I made a small deposit of .0023BTC transferring this amount from my personal bitcoin wallet because Betchain accepts bitcoin as a deposit method. After waiting a little while for Betchain to accept my transfer i began playing with my recently transf­err­ed/­dep­osited .002+ BTC. While i was not having much luck wagering .18mbtc a spin I lowered my wager to .09mbtc/spin until eventually i was wagering .01mbtc/spin and when my balance was at .05mbtc/spin i hit spin and there was a malfunction in the game and was instructed to reload the game. Upon game reloading my balance was 0.00000. This same sort of instance happened the first time at this casino but because the amount was so small i didnt really want to spend much time worrying about it so I just moved on down the road. This time i had to at least inquire as to where my balance went and contacted support and they quickly informed me that I had wagered all i had and that my bonus was complete. The fact i did not apply a bonus made me investigate after being told multiple times by support that I was wrong.

After quick investigations i realized that the amount i deposited was less .0018+btc than i transferred .0023+btc. At this time support told me that thr sustem automatically applied a 50% bonus and the amount shown in my deposit history was correct. I then sent screenshots of the bitcoin transferred and was informed that they were not responsible for the discrepancy and I needed to take it up with cubits. Read the transcript please:

Chat transcript

Name: Austin
E-mail: < email removed >

Support Agent 2 Thu, 10/05/17 06:32:48 pm America/Chicago
Hello. How may I help you?

Austin 06:33:35 pm
I would like some help getting my account credited my funds never applied by your system
Please

Support Agent 2 06:34:08 pm
As far as I can see all your funds were issued on your account.

Austin 06:34:34 pm
Screen­sho­t_2­017­100­5-1­831­44.png
No that is not correct.

Support Agent 2 06:35:24 pm
Sorry, but there is no mistake. You deposited 0.00184800 BTC and bonus is 50% - 0.00092400 BTC

Austin 06:35:44 pm
Why is there a fee being assessed on my deposit made in bitcoin?

Support Agent 2 06:36:22 pm
It is a standard procedure when you use Cubits

Austin 06:36:55 pm
That is incorrect as well, i did not agree to any fees

Support Agent 2 06:37:37 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you. We have followed the rules of the casino. If you have any problem with payment system, you can write to them.

Austin 06:37:55 pm
You use cubits i do not, i transferred from my wallet .00231 btc
Write to whom? 06:38:21 pm
Where in the terms and conditions does it state that a fee will be applied to deposits?

Support Agent 2 06:40:09 pm
Sorry, but those are the rules of the Cubits.

Austin 06:41:26 pm
I did not deposit with cubits, i made a deposit to betchain and no where in the terms and conditions does it state anything about deposit fees

Support Agent 2 06:41:49 pm
But you used Cubits as a payment method.

Austin 06:42:53 pm
No i did not, i used my wallet to transfer. Betchain used cubits

Support Agent 2 06:43:20 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you. You received your funds appropriately.

Austin 06:43:47 pm
No i did not and i would like to see where i agreed to these fees
This is very elementary of you to not correct this error and risk losing a customer over something so small. 06:45:07 pm
I have provided you with evidence that is plain and clear that system made an error. Now it is ypur turn tp decide what is right and what is wrong. 06:46:13 pm

Support Agent 2 06:46:57 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you.

Austin 06:48:18 pm
You are the only one that can help me, i am the customer and you are the business that I elected to do business with.
How can ypu state that you cannot help me?

Support Agent 2 06:50:27 pm
We have provided you with all necessary information. Fees on payment methods is not our jurisdiction.

Austin 06:50:30 pm
Screen­sho­t_2­017­100­5-1­849­57.png

There should not be any fees because that is not how bitcoin works. 06:51:25 pm
There can be a fee on withdrawal but not deposits

Support Agent 2 06:53:15 pm
Those are the rules of this payment method. Unfortunately, we can't change or undo this rules.

Austin 06:53:30 pm
Where are those rules listed?

Support Agent 2 06:54:10 pm
On the site of the Cubits.

Austin 06:54:55 pm
Screen­sho­t_2­017­100­5-1­854­37.png
I deposited using bitcoin not cubits. 06:55:13 pm

Support Agent 2 06:55:46 pm
Sorry, but you have used Cubits. It is presented in our system.

Austin 06:56:51 pm
That is the system you use not me, your company uses cubits to process payments which means that you are responsible for the fees not me.
I have already paid my fees when i purchased my bitcoins. 06:57:26 pm

Support Agent 2 06:58:17 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you. As this question is not in our jurisdiction. If you have any question to the payment system you can contact it.

Austin 07:00:56 pm
You are the payment system and you have been contacted. Technically i am not even supposed to be paying you, this deposit is simply a transfer from one medium to another in order for there to be secure accesd to my funds while playing your games.
Do you understand that at the emd of the day the probability of me ever getting that deposit back is always in the casinos favor. That is why there are no fees. 07:02:17 pm
I am not asking for anything other than a fair chance. I didnt want a bonus, i just wanted tp play with the funds i deposited. 07:04:28 pm
The full amount of funds i deposited 07:05:12 pm

Support Agent 2 07:06:04 pm
Those are the rules of this payment method. Unfortunately, we can't change or undo this rules.

Austin 07:07:08 pm
Those rules are not applied to me they are applied to the company which is you. If you can show me where I agreed to those fees i will go away.

Support Agent 2 07:12:31 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you. As this question is not in our jurisdiction. If you have any question to the payment system you can contact it.

Austin 07:12:52 pm
Screen­sho­t_2­017­100­5-1­912­15.png
Screen­sho­t_2­017­100­5-1­913­28.png
I gamble online with bitcoins and i enjoy it weather i win pr lose. I know what I am talking about because I am an informed customer. With the questionability of trust and fairness of online casino out there i still push forward. I am not asking for anything other than what I agreed to, would you please correct the mistake or refund my money. 07:23:51 pm

Support Agent 2 07:24:52 pm
We do not provide refunds, sorry. In your case there was no mistake done.

Austin 07:26:41 pm
You cannot actually belieb that after everything i have shown you and proven tp you, do you?

Support Agent 2 07:27:06 pm
Those are the rules of this payment method. Unfortunately, we can't change or undo this rules.

Austin 07:28:15 pm
I did not use the payment method of cubits. That is the method that your company used in order to convert my bitcoins into fiat currency.

Support Agent 2 07:29:29 pm
Sorry, but in this case we can't help you. You received your funds appropriately.

Austin 07:31:27 pm
I just want you to show me where i agreed to this?

Support Agent 2 07:34:32 pm
Those are the rules of the payment method.

Duration: 1h 5m 2s
Chat started on: https:­//w­ww.b­et­cha­in.com/
E-mail from LiveChat

I can provide screen shots of all transfer amounts and wallet address but i cant seem to figure out how to attach them in this message.

I only asked for the system error be fixed and to correct the deposit amount and no bonus which was denied. I then asked for a refund and that was denied. I would like all of my deposits back after being dupped into doing business witb this casino. Please help make this right. Thank you

AskGamblers
Posted on October 9, 2017.

Dear @txraider08, 


Please keep in mind that AskGamblers Complaints team consider your demands for a full refund of your already played and lost deposits as unjustified and therefore these will not be supported. However, we consider your demands for further clarification and elaboration of the aforementioned deposit fess as reasonable enough and we hope Betchain casino management will soon jump in in the complaints thread and provide adequate responses to all your concerns.  

Posted on October 9, 2017.

Hi txraider,

I researched your transaction on the blockchain and it looks like there was a fee of 0.00042951 BTC taken on the blockchain. I have attached a screenshot taken from the Blockchain. I'm not sure if it's a Cubits fee, but your wallet provider can confirm that.

The amount transferred to BetChain was 0.00188049 BTC.

The fees you were charged have nothing to do with us, please contact your wallet provider for further clarification.

We can only deposit into your account what is actually sent to us via the blockchain.

Thanks,

Brian

txraider08 United States
Posted on October 9, 2017.

Thank you for your response and attention to this matter.

First, let me respond to askgamblers statement on refund. I am only requesting a refund due to the fact my original deposit was not fully honored in two ways, in quantity of my original deposit(reduced deposit and automatic application of bonus) and game error causing remaining balance to disappear. The justified reason for a full refund is to provide me with a fair and equal playing chance as my original deposit intended or by reimbursement in order to end my business relationship with betchain casino.

Good day Brian,

Please see attached screenshots showing my deposits anf transfers to the wallet address provided to me from betchain. I think you are failing to understand that once I send you the amount from my wallet that I have already paid my portion of fees related to the transaction. Your payment processor(cubits) should be able to provide you with a fee schedule which should probably be published in some way for better transparency. I understand fees applied by a casino on bitcoin withdrawals but enforcing deposit fees is a slap in the face to the customer, I am do not want to pay a fee to probably lose my money, seems redundant don't you think?

Thank you,
Txraider

Posted on October 9, 2017.

Hi,
I've forwarded this to Cubits to try to figure out what that fee is.
If you don't want bonuses, please check the "I don't want to receive any Bonuses" box in your account.
Best,
Brian

txraider08 United States
Posted on October 9, 2017.

Brian,

If you are going to charge a fee for bitcoin then you need to list that information somewhere like any merchant does for credit card purchases and wire transfers. You could also mention these hidden fees in your terms and conditions.

I apologize for not understanding that by not asking for something, ie Bonuses, I was opting in to receiving them automatically. Can you make a suggestion to put your bitcoin transaction fee schedule next to the option to opt out of automatic bonuses on the account settings page.

Can we also not forget to cover the system error which resulted in the vanishing of my remaining balance which is what set off this chain of events.

Regards,

Txraider

Posted on October 9, 2017.

TXraider,

I have said we don't charge fees, so I'm having a hard time trying to understand your motivation for insisting we do.

In your game history, which you can view at any time in your account, your last bet on Book of Pyramids shows your beginning balance of 0.000052 BTC while you were playing with your 50% 2nd deposit bonus. You bet 0.00001 BTC which brought your balance to 0.000042 BTC. This is below the bonus epsilon of 0.00005 BTC (roughly 23 cents) and the bonus canceled itself.

To prevent this from happening in the future, please keep your balance above 0.00005 BTC while playing on a bonus.

Again, I am waiting to hear back from our programmers and Cubits to determine what that Blockchain fee of 0.00042951 BTC is.

Best,

Brian

txraider08 United States
Posted on October 9, 2017.

Brian,

Thank you for responding so quickly and the investigative work you have put into this issue. Seeing as I did not add a bonus nor request a bonus I was unaware of your bonus terms. I think you have come up with a great plan though, in order to not lose All of money I should probably keep my balance above zero or .0005btc, I will have to remember that plan of action as it sounds effective. I was informed a while ago that I should just continue to make deposits if I didnt want my balance to hit zero but that plan sounds like crazy talk dont you think?

Anyhow, my motivation is to get my deposit refunded because of the lack of transparency in fees, automatically applied bonuses and lack of ethical accountability.

Bless your heart,

Txraider

Posted on October 10, 2017.

Hi Txraider,
I heard back from our programmers and they said-

"The fee is set by the wallet which is used by the player and this fee is dynamic isn't raised by us.
The sum of the fee influences the speed of the transaction.
Everything depends on the server which is used by the player.
We need to know the wallet`s name in order to grasp the situation."

I'm waiting to hear back from Cubits, but based on what the programmers said, this doesn't sound like a Cubits fee. It seems to be whatever wallet you're using.

You only need to keep your balance above 0.00005 BTC while playing on a bonus, and only while playing on a bonus, in order to prevent the bonus from canceling itself. Most of our players enjoy bonuses, but as I wrote earlier, all you have to do is check the "I don't want to receive bonuses" when you make your deposit.

Best,
Brian

AskGamblers
Posted on October 14, 2017.

Dear @txraider08,

Please confirm if the issue has been resolved. Keep in mind that in case you fail to respond within the given time frame we will consider your issue as resolved and your complaint will be closed accordingly.

Thank you for your cooperation.

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