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Mucho Vegas Casino - Unfairly confiscated winnings

UNRESOLVED
Heberek3 Sweden
posted on February 1, 2017.

Hi!

I started playing at this casino the other day and claimed their first deposit bonus right away. I made bets of SEK50 until I lost my whole balance which removed the active bonus from my account. Then I made a second deposit and received another bonus.
I started with SEK 5000 and started betting SEK 70. I continued playing and ended up having SEK 31800 that I managed to wager before I made a withdrawal. Everything was great, they congratulated me, asked for my documents, thanked me for sending them and told me to standby for further contact with the Finance Department.

Then I got the email from the Finance Department saying I had breached their terms by betting over 10% of my total balance and they had confiscated all my winnings! But that is not true! I logged into my account and reviewed all my bets during playing with the second deposit bonus (the one leading up to my winnings and withdrawal). And I found no faults done by me. My balance was NEVER even under SEK 2500 and therefor I wasn’t even close to breaching the 10% rule since the highest bet I made was SEK70.

So I contacted support and told them so and that I hade proof for that. Then they actually admitted that it was true that I hadn't breached any terms when playing my 2nd bonus! I thought: Great, now it will all be solved. But then they claimed that I had bet more than 10% while playing with my first bonus. But that bonus was already lost, I didn’t win anything from that one, the balance went to zero, and I was allowed to take a new bonus and try again. I understand that if I would have won while playing with my first bonus they would have the right to confiscate the winnings but I didn’t. And they do not have the right to confiscate winnings from a bonus where I did nothing wrong! Especially since they even admitted that I had done nothing wrong during that play! This casino just don’t want to pay my winnings and is trying everything!

AskGamblers could you please help?
I have made copies of my whole gameplay during the second bonus which proves that I played by the rules every single bet. It is too big to upload but I would be more than happy to sent it to you if you would like to review it?

posted on February 1, 2017.

Dear Mr Kalle L,

As we have explained to you in multiple emails, the terms and conditions of the bonuses (or any other terms and conditions for that matter) are not considered independently or deposit by deposit.

By playing at Mucho Vegas or any other casino and deciding to use bonus offers you accept to comply with all the terms and conditions of the site and they obviously need to be respected overall, not on a case by case basis when you feel like it.

The bonus terms and other rules are established by casinos to ensure that unscrupulous players cannot get an unfair advantage over the casino and abuse the promotions.

This is crucial as the bonuses are created to offer all players extended gameplay and additional chances to win but without fair rules that are respected by players it would be impossible for us or other casinos to offer these generous bonuses.

To achieve this protection from abuse, the betting limits and the other rules need to be respected across all bonuses used and this is why the maximum betting limits are so clearly displayed both in the terms and conditions and on the promotional pages.

Certain betting strategies can give players a medium or long term advantage (which can mean across multiple deposits) and this is why the terms and conditions of the bonuses need to be respected across the whole history of the account, not deposit-by-deposit.

Once they contact us we will provide Askgamblers with the logs of your account so they can verify the fact that you have broken the terms and that, as a result, our actions were justified.

Best regards,

Mucho Vegas

Heberek3 Sweden
posted on February 2, 2017.

First of all: It is NOT stated in your terms that a previous mistake in bonus 1 could have retroactive consequences for bonus 2 (after both deposit and bonus is lost in the first one). Pretty much the other way around. It actually says in your terms:
”By participating in the promotions and/or accepting to receive the bonus/es offered by Mucho Vegas, the player automatically declares to also accept the terms and conditions for that particular promotion/bonus as well as the general promotions/bonus terms and conditions which are listed here under”

I repeat: ”…the terms and conditions for that particular promotion/bonus...” I think is proof enough that you are stating clearly that bonuses are played separately or bonus per bonus / deposit per deposit.

It says in your terms what is not allowed to do and what might happen if those terms are breached but since you never applied any of these possible punishments you can not go back retroactively after I win with another bonus and confiscate winnings that belong to bonus number 2 for an error NOT made during that bonus play.

If I would have won while playing with my first deposit bonus I would have to accept that the funds could get confiscated. But I didn’t win so there was nothing for you to confiscate. And if you wanted to exclude me from receiving further bonuses or terminate my account due to the mistake I made you could have done so and I would have to accept that. But there was no funds to confiscate since the play was over and everything was lost. And you chose not to exclude me from further bonuses and you did not terminate my account. Which then also tells me that everything is all right. I was able to make a new deposit, I was credited a new bonus and I won without breaching any terms. This case just can’t be any clearer?!

Ps. As I said before I can also provide AskGamblers with proof that no terms where breached during bonus 2.

posted on February 2, 2017.

Dear Kalle L,

thank you for quoting our terms.

As is clearly expressed in the quote you provided the player accepts ” as well as the general promotions/bonus terms and conditions which are listed here under” and among those terms is the rule regarding the maximum bets allowed when playing with bonuses.

You have unfortunately violated these terms in the course of your play on our site and this has forced us to void your winnings. The fact that this breach of the terms took place with a previous bonus than the one you won with is irrelevant considering the facts that I laid above regarding the medium to long term advantage which could be derived by betting above the allowed maximums.

To address your comment regarding the fact that you received a second bonus despite your breach of terms, please note that the bonuses are issued by the system automatically when the player selects them. There is unfortunately no automation of the fraud control on maximum bets and these can be discovered only after human review, notably when a player requests the withdrawal of winnings.

Askgamblers is very thorough in its examinations and you can be certain that they will request from us your full playing history which will include the play with your second bonus but of course if you would like to provide them with the same information you are free to do so.

We shall now await the contact of Askgamblers review staff and we will provide them with all the requested data and information which will show that you have indeed violated the terms and conditions of the website and bonuses and therefore our actions were necessary to maintain the integrity of our bonus program.

Best regards,

Mucho Vegas

Heberek3 Sweden
posted on February 4, 2017.

Waiting for AG to request documents to check my game play isn't quite that relevant, is it? Meaning since we both agreed that I havn´t breached any terms while playing Welcome Bonus 2. I accidently did when I was playing Welcome Bonus 1, but as your terms are saying, "the player automatically declares to also accept the terms and conditions for that particular promotion/bonus" And that bonus was as we both know lost and over with. I have no claims there as you shouldn't have any claims in bonus 2 where I played by the book.

And by the way, why are you then sending me multiple emails with even more bonus offers when you said that I am not allowed to play with any more bonuses? I guess that you are hoping that I will (naturally) assume I still can claim them since you email me about it so that you then retroactively can confiscate even more money from me?
I have got bonus offers from you to my email:
2017-01-30 19:21 (4 hours after you told me I was banned from bonuses and that you are stealing my money)
2017-02-03 13:03 (3 days after you told me I was banned from bonuses and that you are stealing my money)

But back to the biggets issue: I played your welcome bonus 2 and I did not breach any terms (as you also admit), why can't you just pay me the money that you wrongly confiscated, and everything is good. I will leave you alone for the rest of my life and wont tell anyone about it. Ok?

posted on February 4, 2017.

Mr Kalle L,

we have provided Ask Gamblers proof that you have violated the terms and conditions of the website but as you admit to it anyway this should not be necessary. We are respecting the process regardless.

I have already explained to you why your claim that violating the terms on one bonus offer should not affect the validity of your second bonus is not correct.

Violating the terms as you have done is bonus abuse and this behaviour has an impact on the overall integrity of the bonus program and we have had no choice but to void your winnings.

You are not eligible to take advantage of any more bonuses due to your clear breach of our terms. As I explained to you already these emails are sent by an automated system and you can disregard them or even better unsubscribe by following the link contained in every mailer that we send.

Best regards,

Mucho Vegas

AskGamblers
posted on February 6, 2017.

AskGamblers Complaints Team requested additional evidence and information from the Mucho Vegas Casino team due to that fact we considered the information and proofs they presented so far as not justified enough to confirm the accusations against player.

AskGamblers
posted on February 10, 2017.

AskGamblers Complaints Team have been in direct communication with the Mucho Vegas management over the last week in an attempt to find a possible solution for this complaint. Unfortunately, such a solution has not been achieved due to the fact that the AskGamblers Complaints Team refused to confirm the following:

A/ Player violated the following term:

"Please also note that a player can bet a maximum of €/$ 5.00, 50 SEK/NOK/ZAR or 10% of their current available balance (whichever is lower) on a given round or spin when using bonuses or winnings generated from bonuses (this does not apply to balances of €/$2, 20 SEK/NOK/ZAR or less)."

Based on the complete player's game log of to the session referring to his second deposit and bonus, we can confirm player did NOT violated the aforementioned rule. Player made 3734 bets and none of these bets was in violation of the max bet rule.

B/ Player was punished and his winnings confiscated due to violation of the max bet rule while playing with a deposit and attached bonus which player lost completely and before he made another deposit and claimed another bonus and with which player was lucky enough to win afterwards. Indeed, player violated the aforementioned rule by placing 24 bets in excess of the allowed max 10% of current balance, but his balance was lost completely prior making another deposit and claiming another bonus. Despite that, Mucho Vegas applied the following term:

"Betting a larger proportion of one’s balance on a single round or game can lead to the voiding of all winnings and bonuses."

We do not consider the application of this particular term to be justified, because the common interpretation of this rule /the interpretation which all other online casinos are using when applying the max bet bonus term and which AskGamblers Complaints team consider to be the only fair, justified and honest interpretation/ refers to all bonuses attached to the relevant deposit and NOT to ALL subsequent deposits.

Based on all the above, AskGamblers Complaints Team consider the confiscation applied by Mucho Vegas Casino on player's legitimate winnings as unfair and unjustified. Unfortunately, the casino team refused to comply with our decision and pay the player in full. Therefore, the complaint is being closed as Unresolved.

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