Bet It All Casino - Deposit limits went missing

On 15.1.2019 I requested a deposit limit of 100€ weekly at Bet It All. Since I felt a strong urge to play more after my withdrawal processed and felt I needed to control myself. They confirmed in live chat that the deposit limit is now set.

On 16.2.2019 I went on their site, wanted to play a little... made 2x50€ deposits and lost. Unfortunately the deposit limit I set a month earlier for a good reason was now gone for some reason and I was able to deposit 1684€ more, and lost all of it.

After this I go to contact them in order to close my account permanently due to a gambling problem. At the same time I ask what happened to my deposit limit? I'm told: "If you didn't write to us on what time you need limits, they will set up on two months minimal. Your deposit limits was set on two months"

1) At no point was I informed on 15.1.2019 when I set the deposit limit that there was a time limit to it, not by the live chat agent, nowhere on their site it reads that support can only set it for 2 months. They claim they sent an email asking me "for how long do you want the deposit limit?". I never got this email and if I did, I would have told them that I want it set permanently.

2) 15.1.2019 - 16.2.2019 is not 2 months, it is just over one month. Like they confirmed to me, it was set for 2 months. But it was gone after just over a month.

I obviously made a complaint to them about this on 18.1.2019. Last reply I got was on 22.1.2019 saying that the case has been transferred to management.

Since then I have asked for update on: 27.2. / 4.3. / 5.3. / 8.3. / 9.3. and I have got 0 replies. Not even when I asked "are my emails coming through?".

I have not been abusive to them in any way, have been politely asking for an update, so I don't understand why they decided to block or just ignore my emails.

So since the communication has completely died, I came here hoping AskGamblers can help.

My demand is that all deposits exceeding the deposit limit that was supposed to be active are returned. 1684€ in total.

This complaint has been reopened as per submitter's request and AskGamblers Complaints Team would like to give it one more try and help both parties involved into the dispute reaching to a satisfactory resolution.

Hi,

On 15th of January the user in question contacted us to put a deposit limit on his account, namely, a limit of 100 EUR per week.

According to our internal policy and responsible gambling policy I quote the following:
“"Deposit limits: You can set a deposit limit for a week and this limitation will last for a calendar month. There is a default deposit limit, however the player is able to change it. The decrease of a deposit limit is an immediate action but if you would choose to increase deposit limits it might take up to a few days to process.”
https:­//w­ww.b­et­ita­ll7.co­m/e­n/r­ead­ing­-ce­nte­r/r­esp­ons­ibl­e-g­aming

These limits are valid for a month and on 16.02.2019 the limits automatically disappeared and the user received an automatic e-mail stating this fact. The user had to reach out to customer support to extend these limits.

The user in question did send a couple of requests simultaneously trying to limit his account, block his account and set a deposit limit to it, therefore the miscommunication between all parties.
The customer support set a deposit limit to the account of the user which, as explained, above can be set for a month, and upon expiration the user gets notified about this fact. Since customer support can set a single limitation to an account only (it is either blocking an account, setting a deposit limit or cooling off) it was understood from the user that the primary focus shall be on limiting deposits which was done accordingly.

The Casino in this case has no obligation to repay any losses whatosever, the limit did expire as per our terms and the user got notified.

Furthermore, there was absolutely no incentive from the casino trying to persuade the user to play, like sending promotions or any other form of contact.

Kind regards,
Daniel

"According to our internal policy and responsible gambling policy I quote the following:
“"Deposit limits: You can set a deposit limit for a week and this limitation will last for a calendar month. There is a default deposit limit, however the player is able to change it. The decrease of a deposit limit is an immediate action but if you would choose to increase deposit limits it might take up to a few days to process.”
https:­­//­w­w­w.b­­et­­it­a­l­l7.c­o­­m/e­­n/­r­e­ad­­ing­­-c­e­n­te­­r/r­­es­p­o­ns­­ibl­­e-­g­a­ming"

- On March 9th 2019 I took a screenshot of said page (see attachment) and I quote the following: "Deposit limits: you can limit the amounts of money you can deposit into your account. There is a default limit on each account, however a decrease of these limits is possible. If you would choose to increase deposit limits it might take up to a few days to process." Not quite like it currently says?

On the same day I took a full page screenshot of said page and additionally other relevant pages, so don't bother changing any more terms.

"These limits are valid for a month and on 16.02.2019 the limits automatically disappeared and the user received an automatic e-mail stating this fact. The user had to reach out to customer support to extend these limits. "

- No such email was received, could you provide proof that they were sent, since I have not got a single automated email from you regarding deposit limits only automated emails I've got are deposit confirmations and withdrawal confirmation.

"The user in question did send a couple of requests simultaneously trying to limit his account, block his account and set a deposit limit to it, therefore the miscommunication between all parties.
The customer support set a deposit limit to the account of the user which, as explained, above can be set for a month, and upon expiration the user gets notified about this fact. Since customer support can set a single limitation to an account only (it is either blocking an account, setting a deposit limit or cooling off) it was understood from the user that the primary focus shall be on limiting deposits which was done accordingly. "

- Could you elaborate on the above? i'm not 100% following.

"Furthermore, there was absolutely no incentive from the casino trying to persuade the user to play, like sending promotions or any other form of contact. "

- Could be true, cannot deny or confirm but what I can say is that I'm currently self-excluded permanently (I hope) due to a gambling problem and I keep getting these SMS about awesome reload bonuses at betitall (see attachment), Could you disable these? I would have emailed customer support with that request but they have ignored my last 10 emails so why would I bother?

Speaking of which, Why the silent treatment?

Hi,

The Terms and Conditions are subject to be changed, altered or additions made from time to time, this is very standard and does not need any additional explanation.

As far the e-mails go, they are automatic and no logs are being kept by the support team however, we shall look into this matter to see if we can find any.

The support team requested a couple of requests by you simultaneously and as explained above a deposit limit was set.

Your account has been permanently disabled and no more promotional news will be sent. Due to the account being disabled/enabled multiple times we've found a bug in the system which led to a situation where the account had a manual setting of "SMSAGREE=1". We apologize for the inconvenience this caused you.

Wishing you luck in your future endeavors.

Kind regards,
Daniel

When the incident happened and months after that, the terms were like in my screenshot from 9.3.2019 above. Also customer support confirmed your policy on deposit limits during the incident via email which I attached a private screenshot of in my first message.

You cannot just change your terms 2 months after the incident and say you have no obligation to refund because you just yesterday(?) changed the terms to fit and apply the new terms against my case. Right, @AskGamblers ?

Hi,

Unfortunately, there is no date visible in your screenshot above, therefore it is invalid.

After an investigation, it got clear that the customer support did indeed make a small mistake when agents were changing shifts and passing each other information due to the high amount of requests from your side.

The casino has done no wrongdoing in this case, the limits were not lifted, they automatically expired and the user got notified appropriately.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Please tell me,

Are you saying the terms were in fact NOT like in the screenshot on March 9th and during the incident? Please check carefully before answering.

"The casino has done no wrongdoing in this case, the limits were not lifted, they automatically expired and the user got notified appropriately." - Oh yes, the emails I never got and you cannot prove they were ever sent.

Hi,

The terms are subject to change from time to time as mentioned above.
The user was notified appropriately.

Dear Askgamblers team, please close this unjustified complaint.

Unjustified?

You have removed my deposit limit after only 1 month while support confirmed it being set for 2 months.

You changed your terms and conditions to directly match this case regarding deposit limits expiry before you started answering to this complaint. I pointed this out with my screenshot which you say is invalid evidence but you don't seem to deny that the terms were at the time of the incident just like in my screenshot. Meanwhile I think all the communication after the fact about deposit limits confirms that 1 month expiry was not your policy on deposit limits when the incident happened, it was 2 months.

You claim you have notified me appropriately on deposit limits and their expiry. No, you have not notified me at all. Your terms did not explain this, the live chat agent who set my deposit limit did not mention anything about 2 month expiry on the limit I set. Also there was no email sent to me explaining that these limits disappear after 2 months or emails notifying me that the limit is about to expire, or has expired. You have not provided any proof supporting this and like you said earlier, you don't have it. So why do you say you have done this when you cannot be sure? I'm already sure I have not received any notifications so you cannot be sure.

I don't have anything more to add at this time and it seems the Casino has nothing more to say either, so can we get a verdict on the matter @AskGamblers?

Hi,

As explained before terms are subject to change from time to time. The actual terms that are on the site are the ones that are in force, not the ones that were on the site half-a-year ago or any other time ago.

As mentioned in our T&C, point
"1.7. You understand and agree to be bound by the provisions in this text, and that they may be amended from time to time. You acknowledge that by registering and using the Website(s) and/or App(s) you are also bound by the terms found in the Privacy Policy and individual Game Rules. It is assumed that you have read, understood and accepted all terms that these documents contain."

Unfortunately, there is no way for us to check whether our e-mail server logs for a time period accounting to more than 3 months back.

Furthermore, we would like to remind you that according to our T&C "2.7. The Customer understands that when engaging in games and services offered by Bet it All there is a risk of losing funds. If you shall not accept this, we strongly advise not to use Website(s) and App(s) further."

Hope this solves your inquiry.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Kind regards,
Daniel

I have not accepted those terms since I have been self-excluded for 2 months now, remember? The updated terms are 2 weeks or so old.

"Unfortunately, there is no way for us to check whether our e-mail server logs for a time period accounting to more than 3 months back. "

- Today it has been 3 months and 1 day, you couldnt check earlier? On 5.4.2019 you said you would look into this, i guess you did not find anything then either?

"Furthermore, we would like to remind you that according to our T&C "2.7. The Customer understands that when engaging in games and services offered by Bet it All there is a risk of losing funds. If you shall not accept this, we strongly advise not to use Website(s) and App(s) further.""

- I also understood and accepted by reading the terms that when I set a deposit limit on the site it would not disappear on me ahead of time like it did here.

Dear Bet It All Casino,

Please provide evidence in regards to the T&C valid at the time of player's deposit limit request and all email correspondence issue related as well. Aforementioned evidence please send directly to the AskGamblers Complaint Team at suppor­[email protected]­skg­amb­ler­s.com.

Thank you in advance.

This complaint has been reopened as per Bet It All Casino request and AskGamblers Complaints Team would like to give it one more try and help both parties involved into the dispute reaching to a satisfactory resolution.

Hi,

Explanation sent to the AskGamblers crew.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Dear Bet It All Casino,

AskGamblers Complaints Team examined all evidence presented and we are kindly asking you to provide additional evidence:

a/ A copy of the email where player is informed about the expiration of deposit limits

b/ Proof when aforementioned term has been changed /date/.

If casino can't present evidence above AskGamblers Complaints Team have no other option but to recommend that casino refund player's deposits in full.

Upon AskGamblers Complaints Terms we consider all evidence strictly confidential and won't be publicly displayed or sent to the third party. Please send required information directly to suppor­[email protected]­skg­amb­ler­s.com.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I have nothing to add, just replying because the timer at the top said it's waiting for me to respond, when it's the casino's turn to respond and provide evidence.

Hi,

a) As mentioned before we're sending hundreds of thousands e-mails per week, therefore logs are being kept for a very short period of time in order to avoid system clutter. Furthermore, it might be that the e-mail landed in the users spam folder and is no longer available, gmail does auto delete spam letters that are a month old.

b) The users screenshot shows of our Responsible Gaming page which are not Terms and Conditions, therefore are not binding. Responsible Gaming is just a guideline of the methods and procedures that are practiced at Bet it All Casino.

Only Terms and Conditions can be quoted and acted upon regarding this case.

Kind regards,
Alvis

a) As mentioned before you keep those logs for 3 months, you had plenty of time to look for those emails after requested and instead you found nothing and decided after 3 months and 1 day to reply that you only keep them for 3 months and thus cannot find any. There was nothing bet it all related in my spam or trash, I frequently check both.

b) Remember, it was you who introduced the Responsible Gaming page in your first message. You quoted them as terms 6 times already in this discussion and now you say these are not even terms? You went through all the trouble to change the page for this specific complaint and now you say the page doesn't even matter?

Hi,

a) As mentioned before (already a couple of times) there are no logs available anymore due to a high workload and optimization of data
b) Binding are only Terms and Conditions, everything else at the site is a mere guideline

If there is anything else, let us know, please.

Kind regards,
Daniel

From the start, the responsible gaming and internal policy was quoted and introduced as terms and that was one of the reasons Bet it all are not obligated to refund my deposits. This was proven to have changed after the incident to work against my complaint, since it was proven, the terms on this page no longer carry any weight, according to the casino.

Another reason why Bet it all is not obligated to refund is that they notified me of their expiring limits, the truth is that no notification was sent to me anywhere, not in email or live chat or sms. I already know no notification was sent and Bet it all were asked to send proof of it and failed doing so. Only time I have been notified of their special expiring deposit limits was after the damage was done, by email saying that my deposit limit was set for 2 months. Note that the limit expired after 1 month.

All this complaint has been from their side is repeating the same thing in their replies and now that their initial points were shot down, they thought of a new thing and say "oh, btw the page we provided as proof at the start means nothing". This is getting nowhere just between us and I hope next reply on this case is from AskGamblers, so we can make actual progress.

Hi,

Bet it All Casino notified you about the expiration of limits.

"Responsible Gaming" is not Terms & Conditions. These are just mere guidelines and the actual measures are chosen on a case-by-case basis. In this case, a months deposit limitation was set afterward, the user got notified appropriately. It is very clear that after seeing the limit expiration the user in question returned to the casino to take advantage of the situation and demand back losses if in case it would not be a winning session.

Playing games at a casino carries a risk of losing, we're sorry that this time luck was not on your side.

Kind regards,
Daniel

That's a very strong accusation and I assume you have proof since it is "very clear" I did this on purpose. Would you mind sharing it?

Or at least provide proof of the notification. Since you are so sure I was notified, it shouldn't be a problem.

If you had notified me in any way of the limits expiring after 1 month, we wouldn't be here. Because you did not notify me in any way, I feel cheated.

When I reply to this it says "Always attach documented proof." does that not apply to the casino? They can just defame me and accuse me of anything without providing any proof?

Casino also has said repeatedly "the user got notified appropriately" while providing no proof of such notification, even after being requested proof and failing to deliver it, they still use this phrase.

Like you said "actual measures are chosen on a case-by-case basis" So was it in my case best to set only a 1 month limit, not notify me about it, just wait for the day I get tilted, lose all my money and hope I don't ask questions?

Support told me a couple of times after I lost my money that the limit was supposed to be set for 2 months, whose decision was it to reduce it to 1 month?

AskGamblers, feel free to step in any time.

Hi,

We would like to kindly remind you that playing games at a casino carry a risk of losing, we're sorry that this time luck was not on your side.

Second, your limits expired and thereafter you were free to deposit any amount of your choice which you did.

There is no legal basis to demand any of your losses back, in the case of a win the casino would've paid out (withdrawn upon request) the whole sum, therefore any of your claims are automatically void.

Wishing luck in your future endeavors.

Kind regards,
Daniel

AskGamblers Complaints Team has been in direct communication with the Bet It All Casino management over the past weeks in an attempt to reach to a fair and justified decision, based on rock solid and unambiguous proofs. Unfortunately, AskGamblers Complaints Team has not been provided with enough valid evidence on behalf management of Bet It All Casino which could prove that casino followed Responsible Gambling Policy, in particular policy of Deposit Limits. Therefore we have no other option but to close this complaint as Unresolved, and recommend to the player to forward their issue directly in front of the relevant regulatory body. As soon as AskGamblers Complaints Team is being notified about the regulator's final decision on the case, we will comply and mark this complaint accordingly.