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Weird Incident


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By scuter
12 years ago
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I'm actually not sure what *exactly* I'm complaining about. My technical knowledge is superior to most Nepalese farmers and some Tibetan monks.

I guess there is a TINY chance I'm complaining about $3,230,000 having been 'stolen'? But really I guess I'm making a complaint as - despite being promised emphatically I would receive a response from Risk Management - to date, no one has made the slightest effort to contact me in regards to this incident and 16 days after sending an email I believe should receive a close-to-instant response.... I have received no reply from Risk Management to my reporting of this incident and [what I believe] are very valid queries in dire need of serious attention.

Prologue: I estimate I have logged about 1500-2000 hours of game time at Microgaming online casinos [thousands more at Prima poker rooms, but not sure that's relevant to the issue at hand].

Incident: A couple weeks ago I was playing Mega Moolah Isis Progressive on Max Coin / Lines at Casino Classic [CasinoRewards]. As anyone who plays the MGV Progressive would already be aware, the Jackpot spins occur [ostensibly] randomly. And they are not common. I mean, I burned through over $1000 at $6.25 on Mega Moolah without seeing a single one.

The Progressive Jackpot wheel is obviously Weighted [I believe any Weighted Slot or game is unethical due to being misrepresentation but that's a separate issue] but it looks like this:

I think it spins for roughly 5-10 seconds. So the Wheel popped up, and I pressed Spin and it was spinning. At which point, something I'd never seen in 7,000,000 seconds whilst playing on Microgaming casinos occurred during that 5-10 seconds where I was spinning for $3.3million:

The game had just been killed and I was in the lobby looking at that error message. I was not disconnected from Casino Classic or any of the dozen applications connected to the Internet. When I reload my game, I see this:

I've seen that particular Jackpot 'win' on all 7 of my Mega Moolah spins lifetime. This was the only time I was concerned to see I'd 'won' ~$10. I kept playing for a little bit but then decided I was too uncomfortable with what had happened to continue so I jumped on Live Chat. If I was concerned before, you can imagine how I felt after chatting to CS: What this chat doesn't show is the 40min or so duration of it. There were very long pauses before I was given answers.

Last week, annoyed at not having received any response, I jumped on Live Chat to inquire what exactly was going on:

I'm not very technical, but I know that anything that can be coded can be coded to 'perform' in certain ways. I'm not an actuary, but I know that 1,000,000:1 coincidences are rare. I'm not a licensing expert but I know that the Gaming Commission he claimed would "not allow it [to happen]" is the KGC who 'allowed' Absolute / UltimateBet owners to code SuperUser accounts into their software and then steal from players for six years. I'm not a philosopher, but I know that allowing or disallowing something you are unaware of is not exactly possible. I'm not a fancy lawyer, but I know that referring to PlayCheck as the "be all and end all" and the "last legal word" is either false [if the matter could be referred to a judiciary] or an insolent joke [if the matter can not be referred to a judiciary]. I'm not a coder, but I know that secret error codes do not exist for exactly the same error [assuming the coders are not lovers of redundancy].

It means the exact same as error 0- general error. - Nathan (CR)

I'm not an investigator, but I know that when simple questions are asked and contradicting responses are given, that usually suggests there is more to the story. I'm not a Security Analyst, but I know that when a player complains about something like this, they deserve an official statement in response to allay their concerns. I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is. And I know that if CS say an Error Message doesn't exist after 20 minutes of internal discussion, even if they're [obviously] wrong, it's a god damn rare error message. So this spookily rare Error Message - which I haven't seen in 7,000,000 seconds - occurs in the 5-10 seconds whilst the Wheel is spinning for $3,300,000. And Risk Management has never responded to my report of the incident. Something makes me really comfortable about ALL of this.

Disputed Casino Casino Classic

Discussion

User name

Hi,


Attached is an audit of the player’s game play and confirms that he won the Mini Jackpot and not the ‘Mega Jackpot’. This information was pulled by MGS directly from the DB.


Let me know if you have any questions.


Kindest Regards


Renée

Affiliate Coordinator


Changed database context to 'casinoarch'.

userid ..................... 9192740

player name ................ J*** *******

transnumber ................ 4431

date game finished ......... Jun 10 2010 8:46PM

coins bet per pay line ..... 20

coin size (cents) .......... 5

number of active paylines .. 25

slot wager (credits) ....... 25.00

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

reel symbols

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

nine lotus carving royal septre knoptic vase ten

sarcophagus king king queen nine

ten ace queen king knoptic vase

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total reel win .................. 0.00 credits (0 coins x 0.05)

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

gamble results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

no gamble games played

progressive results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

wheel stopped on orange segment

player won mini jackpot


progressive was won at a value of 16.69 credits

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

win summary (all slot wins + all bonus wins(if any))

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total payout ........................... 16.69 credits [333 coins]

= (slots payout incl bonus game) + (total gamble payout) - (total gamble wager)

= (16.69 credits + 0.00 credits - 0.00 credits)



Changed database context to 'casinoarch'.

userid ..................... 9192740

player name ................ J*** *******

transnumber ................ 4451

date game finished ......... Jun 10 2010 8:48PM

coins bet per pay line ..... 20

coin size (cents) .......... 5

number of active paylines .. 25

slot wager (credits) ....... 25.00

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

reel symbols

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

jack sarcophagus scatterhawk sarcophagus jack

ten king nine jack queen

nine jack ten queen sarcophagus

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total reel win .................. 0.00 credits (0 coins x 0.05)

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

gamble results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

no gamble games played

progressive results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

wheel stopped on orange segment

player won mini jackpot


progressive was won at a value of 10.04 credits

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

win summary (all slot wins + all bonus wins(if any))

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total payout ........................... 10.04 credits [200 coins]

= (slots payout incl bonus game) + (total gamble payout) - (total gamble wager)

= (10.04 credits + 0.00 credits - 0.00 credits)



Changed database context to 'casinoarch'.

userid ..................... 9192740

player name ................ J*** *******

transnumber ................ 4482

date game finished ......... Jun 10 2010 8:51PM

coins bet per pay line ..... 20

coin size (cents) .......... 5

number of active paylines .. 25

slot wager (credits) ....... 25.00

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

reel symbols

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

nine ten sarcophagus jack king

queen jack jack eye of horus ace

lotus carving sarcophagus queen nine sarcophagus

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total reel win .................. 0.00 credits (0 coins x 0.05)

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

gamble results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

no gamble games played

progressive results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

wheel stopped on orange segment

player won mini jackpot


progressive was won at a value of 10.00 credits

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

win summary (all slot wins + all bonus wins(if any))

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-------

total payout ........................... 10.00 credits [200 coins]

= (slots payout incl bonus game) + (total gamble payout) - (total gamble wager)

= (10.00 credits + 0.00 credits - 0.00 credits)



Changed database context to 'casinoarch'.

userid ..................... 9192740

player name ................ J*** *******

transnumber ................ 4509

date game finished ......... Jun 10 2010 8:55PM

coins bet per pay line ..... 20

coin size (cents) .......... 5

number of active paylines .. 25

slot wager (credits) ....... 25.00

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

reel symbols

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

jack ace scatterhawk king royal septre

ten knoptic vase nine wild ten

lotus carving ten ten ace jack

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

total reel win .................. 2.00 credits (40 coins x 0.05)

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

gamble results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

no gamble games played

progressive results

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

wheel stopped on yellow segment

player won minor jackpot




progressive was won at a value of 100.02 credits

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

win summary (all slot wins + all bonus wins(if any))

------­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­---­-----

total payout ........................... 102.02 credits [2040 coins]

= (slots payout incl bonus game) + (total gamble payout) - (total gamble wager)

= (102.02 credits + 0.00 credits - 0.00 credits)

User name

The question the player poses is actually not something that I would know. This information is not available to me and to be honest, even though I have a tech background, I don’t really understand the question – likely because that information is not something that is available to me. I would suspect the player’s best avenue for finding out that information is to contact MicroGaming directly since they create/design the games.



I’ll get back to you once I have info from MGS.



Cheers



Kindest Regards



Renée

Affiliate Coordinator

User name loyalty-level-2

Thanks Renée.


I'll admit I don't really understand what 'weighted' really means [when it's used to manage an RTP %], but I'd sure like to learn a lot more - which seems harder than it should be at times [although I might just be getting old or more dumbed of course].


You've already illuminated it for me far more than most appear willing to do, and I don't want to push my luck, but I shall risk it anyway because I am fuelled with courage from drink. My main concern with 'weighted' is whether or not my understanding it more completely would affect my decisions to play certain Slots at certain times - I suspect such an understanding just might, which makes me marginally nervous due to my large bet sizing and volume.


Basically...and please feel free to ridicule me if I have the concept hilariously wrong....in a hypothetical where an incredibly high volume player had won a very large amount on a specific Slot at a small MGV casino - so much so that the single player's wagering dwarfed all other wagers in comparison [at that casino] - could the Weighted Slot in question [which had paid out so much] then be expected to correct the disparity? Over say a month, or whatever the period of time is for which the Slots are 'managed' to produce the expected RTP %'s?


Again, this is purely personal interest stuff, and if you cannot comment further on it, that's aiight....it's really quite unrelated to the Complaint posted above to which you're kindly responding....of course.


cheers

Jonny

User name

Just a quick update.


Still waiting on a response from MGS.


Regarding the player’s question here: As the Progressive is networked, is it all hosted on the Microgaming server? Are you able to go into a bit more detail regarding that?


All Progressive jackpot games are interconnected through a wide area network. Every bet made at every MGS casino at one of the progressives counts towards it’s jackpot, which often results in a very large jackpot. Due to the way all MGS Casino contribute to the progressives, each casino is constantly being updated by the Progressive servers on jackpot amounts and winnings, which also makes it very difficult for winnings to be altered in any way.


Weighted is a bit of a subjective term – obviously to meet the payout percentages, there is math behind everything and the results of the game are being managed to a degree. eCOGRA audits this all to ensure the percentages are accurate, and if anything had been manipulated here, it would take an impossible effort to co-ordinate across all systems to ensure it was all kept accurate.


Thanks.


Kindest Regards,


Renée

Affiliate Coordinator

Casino Classic Complaint Stats

Resolved 4 / 5
Avg. Amount $549
Avg. Complaint Duration 12 days
Avg. Response Time 1 day

Casino Classic Complaints

See all complaints for this casino
Delayed payment of winnings

December 23, 2018.


Hello. My name is Randy < surname removed >. I'm submitting a complaint about non payment of winnings from Casino Classic based in Sydney Australia. On the 17th of December 2018. I made a withdrawal request for $500.00 that I won playing online slots at the Casino Classic website. I waited the 2 days or 48 hours as outlined by the website. After the 2 day waiting period was over I went to the Casino Classic website to see if my request has been processed. What I found was my winnings were back in my casino account. I inquired to why they hadn't processed the payment. They said do to the limitations of their payment processor they were unable to process my winnings to my credit card ending in 5770. Or to my card ending in 5310. Even though Casino Classic has sent winnings i won before to my card ending in 5310. They were unable to do so now because of limitations of their payment processor. So I asked about sending an echeck to my savings account. They said to fill out the (pmop) Preferred Method Of Payment form. Which I did. Then they said I had input something wrong. So I had to find another pmop. They suggested instadebit. So I filled out online forms created an instadebit account. Instead of receiving money. I accidentally loaded my casino account with $500.00 from my savings account. I contacted Casino Classic right away. To have them cancel the money I had just loaded to my casino account. Which they did. Then informed me that I would have to wait 8 banking days to make sure instadebit didn't credit my online casino account. Even though I received an NSF for the transaction I accidently made. The only reason I used instadebit was because they suggested it because every other pmop failed including an echeck to my savings account. They previously sent my winnings to my chequing account. Please help.

       Regards Randy

Status solved Resolved
$500