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Haz Casino - Declined payment for no legitimate reason

RESOLVED

Complaint Info

Disputed casino

Haz Casino

Amount

€ 40.2

1 year ago

Dear AskGamblers team,

I see myself in obliged to file a complaint against Haz casino due to the fact that they refused paying out my balance of 40.20 and blocked my account instantly for no legitimate reason. I know, the amount of money is rather small, but it seems that especially in cases with such rather small amounts Haz casino uses the practice described below, as users are more likely to refrain from further complaints and efforts if the amount of money is that small.

In the following, I am going to outline the events:

I created my account at Haz casino in the evening on Saturday, 2nd of September, and deposited 20€ in my account. The next morning I wanted to start playing but realized that my deposit triggered a welcome bonus. As this limits the games I can play, I contacted the customer Support and asked them to cancel all bonuses from my account. There was no problem, as I had not started playing, so they proceeded to cancel all bonuses from my account. I started playing and wagered roughly 20€ in live casino games. I came out roughly break even. At that time, I had enough of playing but I realized that the minimum withdrawal is 30€, minimum deposit is 20€, so I decided to deposit another 20€ and keep playing for a bit, as i new later this weekend I would have other plans. I already declined all potential bonuses when depositing these 20€. I decided to play a few rounds of Aviator with Auto cash out at 1.5x. I had some ups and downs, but also came out roughly at break even with a balance of 40.40. Then, I decided to proceed to the withdrawal. As per usual, for withdrawing I had to undergo KYC verification, which went smoothly and pretty fast. The day after the KYC verification was completed,on Monday 4th of September, I received an email, saying that my withdrawal has been declined, as had not wagered all my deposited money at least once. I was quite sure that I had wagered all of it, as I had been playing with bet sizes of at least 1€. Nonetheless, they put the balance of 40.40 back to my account.

Coming back to my account, I saw that the system had counted a total wager of 36.00€, I did not see that before requesting the withdrawal, so then i thought, "Fair enough, my mistake". Hence, i played another few rounds in aviator, definitely more than 4, probably some 20-ish rounds at 1€ bet size, leaving me, after some ups and downs, at a total balance of 40.20€. After that, I checked the amount counted by the system, and it was still at 36.00€. Nonetheless, I decided to withdraw my money, as was now 100€ sure that i had wagered through at least once, but realistically estimated I had probably wagered my balance already 2 times or more.

On Tuesday, the 5th of September, I received the following email:

"Dear Sandor,

This is to inform your withdrawal request has been declined.

A review of your game logs has shown clear signs of safe-betting practices, which falls under abusive gameplay practices as specified in our Terms and Conditions. As per our Terms and Conditions under section Termination of user account ("You have abused or have been suspected to abuse our reward system, including but not limited to placing safe bets for the sole purpose of accumulating rakeback cashback or rank up bonuses"), your balance has been retracted and your account has been permanently disabled.

All decision made by www.hazcasino.com are final.

Thank you for understanding.

Respectfully,"

My account was already blocked/deleted by that time. I tried to make contact with Haz casino twice to review what happened and get a better understanding why they would act that way, but no one got back me. I want to point out that the accusations made by the casino are not substantiated, as I did not benefit from any bonus, reward system. I even explicitly made the customer service cancel all bonuses from my account, so that I could play freely, and I took the odds of the games I played as any player has to. I believe this is a common method used by this casino to profit from casual players who show tendencies that they do not want to wager big in the more volatile games. They may expect that players refrain from the hustle and effort necessary to try to get their money back, and as I myself have been blocked and ignored by them on all channels, I looking for your support. I would highly appreciate your feedback on this, and understand if it is possible to get the money back somehow, not only for the sake of the money, but also to demonstrate them that someone has drawn attention to their way of doing business with small-wager players.

With kind regards,

Sandor <surname removed>

AskGamblers
1 year ago

Dear Haz Casino,

Please let us know if there are any updates regarding this ongoing complaint.

Please note that, in case you fail to respond within the given timeframe, we will consider your case unresolved and it will be closed accordingly. As a direct consequence of such closure, the operator's ranking score on AskGamblers will be decreased accordingly.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

1 year ago

Hello Sandor,

thank you for contacting us.

I want to assure you that I have conducted a comprehensive investigation into your case, in collaboration with our finance department.

You were engaged in gaming activities involving your deposit in two distinct games: Bac Bo and Aviator. In the game of Bac Bo, we observed that all your bets were placed on both the Player and the Banker, a strategy commonly known as safe-betting. This approach is considered a low-risk betting pattern, designed to increase the likelihood of recovering your wagers.

Regarding your gameplay in the Aviator game, I did not identify any ups and downs as you had described in your previous communication. To provide more details, you placed bets totaling €34 and managed to secure €34.60 in winnings.

To support our findings, I am attaching the gameplay history, which clearly illustrates the pattern of safe-betting. Additionally, I am including a screenshot from one of the Bac Bo gaming sessions, which demonstrates your consistent bets on both the Player and the Banker. Should you require more evidence from Bac Bo gameplay history, please let me know.

Furthermore, when your withdrawal request was declined, the finance team informed you about safe-betting on the email they sent you. Attaching the screenshot of the email as well.

It is important to note that the finance department's actions were entirely in accordance with the Terms and Conditions (T&C) that you agreed to when creating your casino account. Specifically, the clause under the section titled "Termination of User Account" that states:

"You have abused or have been suspected of abusing our reward system, including but not limited to placing safe bets for the sole purpose of accumulating rakeback cashback or rank up bonuses."

Should you have any further inquiries or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out to us.

Best regards,

Anton

1 year ago

Dear Anton,

Thank you for getting back in the name of Haz Casino.

By to your argument, you communicate that at Haz casino players are not allowed to withdraw their money when they are lucky.
What you are presenting as "safe-betting" is something made up by Haz Casino to be used against low-wager players who try to not lose their balance immediately.
The game history you attached shows that I legitimately played the games in a way that you can play them. The way I placed the bets changes nothing about the RTP, which is max. 98.87% in the case of bac bo, and max. 97% in the case of aviator.
I did not lose money in the rounds I played because I was lucky. I could have been lucky wagering larger amounts as well and possibly achieved the same outcome, but I might have lost my small balance of 2x 20€ a lot faster. There is no other reasonable way of betting with such a small balance and still enjoying the play. No casino has the right to tell a player in what way they should play the available games.

Additionally, you do very well know that the odds of these games cannot be beaten by adjusting bet sizes. For a player that is lucky, simultaneously other players will not be lucky and lose money. Haz casino already benefits from anybody playing any of the available games, as at a large number of games the RTP will inevitably be achieved. Any person who plays takes the odds and knows that he can only win or break-even if they are lucky.

It is totally unacceptable that you decline payments for players who have been lucky over just a low number of rounds.

Furthermore, this statement "You have abused or have been suspected of abusing our reward system, including but not limited to placing safe bets for the sole purpose of accumulating rakeback cashback or rank up bonuses." is totally inappropriate.
I again emphasize that I had explicitly made the Haz Casino Customer Service cancel all my bonuses before placing any bets, so that I would not benefit from any bonuses.

With the way you have acted so far, you demonstrate that you want to make sure that players must lose money at all times, that benefitting just from the RTP of the games is not enough for Haz casino, apparently Haz Casino needs to make sure that every player loses.

Appealing to your sense for fair play, I am requesting you to reconsider your argument and the decisions you have made in this case.

Respectfully and with kind regards,
Sandor

AskGamblers
1 year ago

Dear all,

Following a careful review and consideration of all the information, details and/or proof presented by parties during the complaint process, the AskGamblers Complaint Team reached the conclusion that Haz Casino management didn't act in accordance with their Terms and Conditions. Moreover, the mentioned term refers to when the player accepts a bonus, upon the player's statement bonus was cancelled.

We kindly ask Haz Casino management to present evidence and terms where is clearly stated the low betting without a bonus they consider a violation of their term.

Please be in aware that in case you fail to respond and/or provide requested information within the given timeframe, the complaint will be closed as unresolved. As a direct consequence of such closure, the operator's ranking score on AskGamblers will be decreased accordingly.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

1 year ago

Hello Sandor,

Let's clear out the real intention of why you joined Haz Casino and took the welcome bonus. Maybe askgamblers buy your story but I don't, and I've seen your profile of players many times before.

You said on live chat that you are new to gambling but given you understand how the games operate, navigate successfully through Terms and Conditions and are able to rather convincingly mislead the mods, I am inclined to be real about your case because otherwise I am leaving a rather dangerous precendent and our reputation stained by small time abusers.

You joined Haz Casino on the third of September and claimed the welcome deposit bonus. After claiming the bonus on your 20€ deposit, knowing that the bonus grants free spins, you entered the game and played the free spins. Now, here is where you changed your mind. Because you didn't win much with the free spins that were part of the welcome bonus, you decided its not worth your effort and requested to cancel the bonus and withdraw the funds because 'you are having a bad feeling'. At no point we gave you any reason to have a 'bad feeling' and you knew that Live Games are forbidden to play with the welcome bonus. I bet your feeling would have been very good if you won some money out of the free spins but alas, luck can't be influenced.

After being instructed by live chat to wager your deposit once in order to withdraw, you went into Aviator and Bac Bo which you knew offer low risk betting.

Quoting you from your post above: 'Additionally, you do very well know that the odds of these games cannot be beaten by adjusting bet sizes' - true, but in the game Aviator if you just collect as soon as the plane takes off you get your bet back guaranteed + a few cents, hence safe betting. You just need to spam click and you win, there is no play or luck involved.

You also mention winnings and being lucky in your post. If you were that lucky and the winnings were flowing why did you stop playing after wagering your deposit? Because you had a plan that you couldn't push through so you backed down.

The facts are that you intentionally played those games to wager your deposit and withdraw it. You presented yourself as inexperienced in online gambling (can provide the chat) and you are anything but. If you were inexperienced you definitely wouldn't have landed on two games commonly used by abusers.

Askgamblers mods may be enchanted by your eloquence and playing the victim but you are not fooling me.

Bottom line is that he would have been happy playing if he won from the free spins, but as he didn't he decided to withdraw the deposit and try his luck in some other casino. I can't know the full extent of your plan but if it was clean of ill intentions we would never have to deal with any of this.

Anyway, dear askgamblers mods, we agree to reopen his account and add 40€ for him to withdraw if we can consider the case resolved without affecting our score.


Respectively

Anton

1 year ago

Dear Anton,

I want to emphasize that the complaint is directed at Haz casino and the way they dealt with my case.
Hence, I believe it is unjustified that you, representing Haz casino in this case, say "I have seen your profile of players many times before". You are telling your story about me that is based on your personal opinion, presenting your personal assumptions if they were was true. But they are not, and they way you wrote it reveals a personal disdain from your side towards players, in this case myself.
It is completely inappropriate to refer to me as "small time abuser". Looking at the circumstances, I in no way abused from your casino, all bonuses were already cancelled, so I played the games and took the odds, and was lucky enough to come out break-even.

And regarding the welcome bonus: Of course, in the first instance I signed up and took it, you are advertising it everywhere, you are trying to lure players with it. It surely is the reason why players choose Haz casino above another Casino which does not offer a comparable bonus. Nonetheless, it still is the player's right to opt-out of the bonus, which is what I did without taking any advantage. I really think it is unfair to discredit players for properly reading and acting in line with your Terms and Conditions.

Also, I want to comment on the almost rhetorical you asked: "If you were that lucky and the winnings were flowing why did you stop playing after wagering your deposit?"
As a player, I have the right to withdraw my money whenever I want, as long as I have fulfilled the wager requirement, and I never have to justify my withdrawal decisions or why I play a certain way. It also does not matter which of the available games a player chooses to play, a player always has to take the odds, regardless if Haz casino calls these games "Abuser games". At this point, I would like to highlight that the term "Abuser Games" is only employed to discredit me in this conversation, and it does not provide any further value.

Furthermore, I am glad to rectify information you shared about the game "Aviator", as the information you provided is incorrect: It does not matter at which point you cash out in this game, the RTP is always max 97%, and you cannot outplay it. The Askgamblers team knows exactly that it is an unbeatable game and that you already need luck to just break-even, no matter when you cash-out. There is no safe-betting in this game, you always take the odds and the associated risk. Haz casino surely wouldn't offer any game where a player can be profitable without being lucky..

Dear All,

I filed this complaint because I felt unfairly treated by Haz casino. I have been presenting the events in the way they occurred, and it came out the Haz casino has not acted in accordance with their Terms and Conditions. I think it is completely inappropriate that Haz Casino accuses me of being "a small time abuser" who "is playing the victim". Nonetheless, I am glad that this complaint is publicly visible and that people can witness how Haz Casino treats players who don't wager big, who don't show tendencies to be profitable for the casino, and then raise a flag when Haz Casino tries to shut them off.

Furthermore, it is totally out of place to accuse me, or any player, of "ill intentions" because of wagering low.
If I hadn't filed a complaint, Haz casino would have shut me off without anybody ever noticing that they do not act in line with their T&C, and that they do not hesitate to use false information to support their argument. To put in the words of Haz casino's representative, "we would never have to deal with any of this", if I didn't file this complaint. But I did file it, and it seems it is important that I did.

All Haz casino have been trying to do since my complaint was opened, is whitewashing their image by presenting inaccurate information and distorting facts, in addition to making unsubstantiated accusations. In my opinion, the rigorous, standardized, almost automated way in which Haz Casino has been acting in this case can be a strong indicator that they are used to acting that way if a player shows tendencies of limited profitability for them, even if Haz casino is acting unrightfully.

I am looking forward to the response from the Askgamblers team on how to further proceed with this case.

With kind regards,
Sandor

AskGamblers
1 year ago

Dear @Blackjackfriend,

The AskGamblers Complaint Team strongly believes that due to all circumstances, the casino has given a very good offer, even more, it is equal to the disputed amount of your complaint. Therefore it should be accepted, and the complaint considered as resolved.

Please confirm in a timely manner if you consider the issue resolved. In case you fail to respond within the given timeframe we will consider your case resolved and it will be closed accordingly.

Please keep in mind that as per the AGCCS Terms and Guidelines which you accepted upon registering and using our complaint system, you are obliged to provide the necessary level of assistance and cooperation during the process, and providing updates in a timely manner is a must.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

1 year ago

Dear AskGamblers Complaint Team,

The offer suggested by Haz casino was addressed to you, as they apparently are looking for your validation that the complaint will be resolved if they transfer the 40€ to my account.

On my side I agree to consider this complaint resolved once the 40€ are transferred to my bank account.
I believe that Haz casino can directly transfer the 40€ without reopening my account, as they already have all the necessary details to make the transfer.

Dear Haz Casino,

Please confirm that you agree to proceed as validated by the AskGambler Complaint team. I suggest you directly transfer the 40€ to my bank account, to save time and resources on both ends.

Once I have received the payment on my bank account, I will update this conversation so that this complaint will be resolved.

Looking forward to your confirmation and receiving the payment.

Kind regards,
Sandor

1 year ago

Hello Sandor,

You will need to request a withdrawal for the amount as we can't make a direct transfer.

I reopened your account now and added the money, please login and request a withdrawal for the amount.

Kind Regards,

Anton

1 year ago

Dear All,

Haz Casino has processed the withdrawal and I received the 40€ on my bank account. I believe this complaint case can now be considered resolved.

Dear Fellow Gamblers and Readers,

I am certain that thanks to this case and conversation above you have enough insights on Haz Casino's way of doing things, and a solid base to draw your own conclusions on what kind of treatment to expect when playing at this casino. Keep in mind that it took a publicly visible complaint to even get a response from Haz Casino. Without going through all this time and effort, you will have no chance to get your money back, so be aware. Let's also again relish the fact that this was a case of only 40€.

A big Thank You to the AskGamblers Team for providing a space where players can draw attention to their rights.

With kind regards,
Sandor

AskGamblers
1 year ago

Dear all,

As apparent from the submitter's latest post, the AskGamblers Complaint Team is pleased to announce the case has been resolved and closed.

We thank both parties for their assistance during the complaint process.