Complaint #24 Cloudbet Casino

Live Casino Errors

By offshores

8 years ago

Message on forum

September 26, 2017

To Whom It May Concern,

I have been using Cloudbet for the last month or so fairly regularly and have enjoyed their quick deposit and withdrawal options. Yesterday while I was playing BlackJack on the Live Casino I experienced several errors.

Ordered from newest to oldest
1) Cards dealt to the table. I'm showing a BlackJack on one hand and 15 on the other. After dealing out all cards, the dealer stops dealing and rings the bell. The pit boss arrives at the table and they chat briefly and the hand is scored and my 2 hands lose while the two hands to my left won. One of the users has BlackJack as well. ( Screenshot: https://imgur.com/Bh6qI7o )
2) Dealer leaves the table mid shoe after I had already placed a .5 btc wager on one of the 2 hands I was playing. The table would not let me unregister or leave the hand so I stayed at the table hoping to play it, but was eventually booted and never received credit.
3) Dealer makes a mistake and accidentally splits my hand after I requested simply a hit. After having the pit boss there and making some quick moves I am presented with the typical hand options and I hit stand on my 18 (44x), but it already moved to the next hand which put me staying on a soft 14 against a 7... Note: The following image is from the hand after. No idea if there are sequential Game IDs but the admin should be able to easily look up the history in the backend admin interface. ( Screenshot: https://imgur.com/483hQH2 )

In hindsight I should have recorded the sessions, but I never experienced an issue as grave as the 1st problem listed above. Had that not occurred then I would have chalked the other 2 up to "things that happen when playing cards over the internet" although I did immediately submit a support ticket after the first issue occurred that was never responded to on the very same day.

In all of these instances I tried to reach out to the dealer and pit bosses via chat, but no one would acknowledge my questions. They just smirked and giggled then kept pressing on with the game. I spoke with Roy at Cloudbet and the convo from that is below. He was trying to be helpful, but his limited access to the history of the hand was apparent with his responses. In the end I feel cheated out of close to .5 BTC. I have gambled for a long time and have never felt this feeling of being blatantly taken advantage of and I have played a lot of the terrible online casinos with 6-8 deck instant reshuffles after every hand. I know that has the great potential to be rigged in the house's favor. However this particular situation with humans involved and everything I saw unfold before me it leaves a poor taste. I do not plan on playing again at the casino. People make mistakes I get that, but to not even go back to check the history and/or video footage for the facts is gross and I will not be a part of it.

I reserved from posting all over social media sites and forums and would instead like to really simply resolve it with the people of Cloudbet. Presumable the Live Casino is outsourced and they should know of the gaping problems it is potentially causing for other players.

I wrote this quickly so if there are any questions for clarification then please reach out by email.

Thank You
Brian

Encl: Chat with Roy from Cloudbet

Chat started
offshores
I just had a had invalidated while playing on the casino. This is the second issue with the Live Casino today.

Roy joined the chat
offshores
Actually the 3rd issue

Roy
Sorry, can you please explain in more details about what the issue is?

offshores
Well, the latest issue the dealer dealt everyone cards and then after dealing the last hand she stopped and hit the bell and then paid the bets I assume based on the table hands before hitting but I had a blackjack on one of my two hands and I lost both
Do you want the other 2 occurrences as well?
Normally I would just let these things go, but we're talking about almost .5 bitcoin in errors now
I have screenshots of the latest incident from learning how to use that feature on the first go around
Literally I feel like I have been robbed and I never feel that way and gamble a fair amount

Roy
I'm sorry but I've just checked but there are no issues on your account and on your bets neither

offshores
it was on the live casino. I submitted a helpdesk ticket earlier
I can forward the latest screenshot as well
can you look up based on round id?

Roy
yes I can. what is the round ID?

offshores
I promise you this is wrong Roy
113125512

Roy
Yes, I've just checked it again and as I told you, there are no issues with it.

offshores
are you able to see the actual hand?
i swear on my life this is wrong Roy. Blatantly wrong
no way a blackjack loses on that hand in any spot with a 7 showing by the dealer

Roy
You did not have a blackjack but a Jack and a Ten.

offshores
i had AsJs
i have the screenshot
there was no JT on the board

Roy
The screenshot you sent was the one which you had a Jack and a Ten.

offshores
that was the first issue
here i'll attach the latest
and the first issue it was the hand before that

Roy
Sure, go ahead

offshores
i'm just learning how to use the reporting feature today
normally i would never even think to report
latest screenshot sent

Roy
can you attach it here please?

offshores
uploading now
I promise i'm not trying to cheat you

Roy
your bet was of 0.1 on it right?

offshores
correct on 2 different spots

Roy
and you should have won 0.2?

offshores
at least .25 on the one because blackjack odds. the other was undetermined
she ended the hand before I could make a play
it was really bad
fact it's the 3rd mistake today is even more alarming

Roy
The other one was not paid out but as I have told you above, there are no issues, you were paid 0.2 winnings on this bet.

offshores
that's impossible and it's not reflected in my account
i'm still showing the balance. i was monitoring
again, i'm in disbelief still even now there's not better record

Roy
Can you confirm the balance amount on your side?

offshores
210.54
mbtc
or .2105
i'd been betting in .1 increments for close to an hour i was monitoring my balance every hand

Roy
yes correct. I have double checked and it was credited. You were given 0.2 winnings on your blackjack.

offshores
ok, why would i receive .2 when the amount should be .25 on a blackjack based on odds?
blackjack pays 3 to 2
this is bogus man
that just verifies it in a sense if that's what it is showing

Roy
I'm sorry I will not be able to advise you further. There are no issues as I've told you.

offshores
could you kindly escalate the issue?
again, there is a real problem here. i feel obligated to take it up with the various online gambling forums and social sites to investigate if others have had an issue
again, i feel like i was cheated
and it should be pretty clear
it's a shame too because i really enjoy playing the live casino and have done well there in the past

Roy
We respect your decision if you wish to do so but as I have told you, there are no issues on our side and the winnings were credited on your balance.

offshores
could you send me the history available in a screenshot here or by email?

Roy
I'm sorry but I cannot provide you with this.

offshores
are you able to escalate the issue further so someone can look at the hand play or the video?
it brings the question of trust with gambling on the live casino which down the road could grow to an even bigger problem as the site grows

Roy
I have already checked and there has not been any issues on you last bet. you will be getting the same response if I escalated it I'm afraid.

offshores
Man i'm really disappointed by that answer
I guess all I can do is make the issue known and ask others if they've experienced the same and stop playing at the live casino because clearly there's something amiss with the disconnect between the two entities

Roy
Our records shows that there were no issues and this is what I'm advising you and I cannot do otherwise unfortunately.

offshores
Yeah which is crazy the records show that because that is wrong plain as day

Roy
We respect your decision if you wish to do so but we won't be able to do anything on our side for this,

offshores
i understand Roy and I know you guys run a good book so I cannot be upset, but the Live Casino is bogus
Again, I'd implore you to look in to this and escalate it for more proof on their end. They are doing your players wrong.

Roy
I'm really sorry that you are disappointed and I would've liked to help you if it was showing that there were any issues on there but as it doesn't, I cannot really do much.

offshores
Ok.. I presume you have done all you can do. I will seek help elsewhere. Thank you for your time

Disputed Casino Cloudbet Casino

Reason Software fairness

Amount BTC0.5

Discussion

AskGamblers

• Support Team

8 years ago

Dear @offshores,

Please confirm the case has been resolved and you got the disputed refund so that AskGamblers Complaint Team could move further with closing the case.

Thanks for your cooperation.

offshores

8 years ago

Hi Leandro,

Thank you for your reply. I did see the amount for the first issue was credited back to my account. I appreciate CloudBet's response with regard to fully investigating the matter for a resolution. Did the casino vendor happen to respond regarding not paying attention to my chat requests while the issue was occurring?

As far the other issues, did you receive any response regarding those hands as well?

2) The amount states was .05 BTC and not .5 BTC. I typed that quickly and made a typo, but the amount was never credited back after the dealer left mid-shoe and the table was effectively shutdown and removed from the lobby.

3) The dealer incorrectly split my pair of fours (44) when I simply requested a hit against a 7 showing. The subsequent hand I was playing was A4 and when I clicked Stand on the UI it interpreted the Stand for the next hand I am assuming because the dealer already tried to split the 44s. Basic strategy and math dictates to always hit Soft Ace with anything less than a 6 showing especially against a 7. Consequently it cost me the bet on at least the A4 hand. I attached a screenshot, but it is actually the Round before that hand. I had just learned of the report issue button and saving screenshots. I thought I would be querying the 3rd party vendor directly, but it seems that is just for saving screenshots with pertinent information. I tried to talk with the dealer and pit boss via chat as well, and received no response.

I appreciate resolving this matter here as well. Bugs in software as well as human errors are inevitable in any business and iterations of the processes will ultimately produce a better gaming environment. It seems a lot of the problem could be avoided if the 3rd party vendor was more responsive to chat or reporting while the issue was occurring to avoid the additional time required to further report/investigate by the affected parties. As mentioned before I have never had an issue with CloudBet's core service SportsBook offering and will continue using it for the foreseeable future.

Regards,
Offshores

Cloudbet Casino

• Representative

8 years ago

Hi Offshores,

I understand that the issue has been resolved. Could you please confirm this is the case?

Firstly, to identify and resolve the immediate issue. As you may know, Cloudbet uses casino content provided by third-party vendors. The vendor in this case has investigated this issue and it seems that the pit boss was trying to cancel the round due to a technical issue. This should have returned the funds to your account. However, there was a further technical issue and the round was not properly refunded.

We have now completed the refund as required.

Second, we'd like to put in place measures to ensure this doesn't happen again. We have worked with the casino vendor to review whether the pit boss or dealer was aware that this operation had failed. The casino considers this a rare technical issue, nonetheless, they say they will address it by providing visibility on the studio level as to whether refund operations have been properly completed.

We have now credited your account with 0.35 BTC. 0.25 BTC for the winning blackjack hand and a 0.1 BTC refund for the undetermined/unplayed hand.

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention, and we appreciate also the manner in which you've reported it. Cloudbet will also be conducting training with our live chat agents focused on better handling of this issue in the future.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused, and thank you again for your patience and understanding.

Leandro

AskGamblers

• Support Team

8 years ago

Dear Cloudbet Casino,

Please let us know if there's some update regarding this case.

Cloudbet Casino Complaint Stats

Resolved 83 / 92

Avg. Amount $29,255

Avg. Complaint Duration 7 days

Avg. Response Time 2 days

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Blocked my account with 550k dollars

My situation is as follows. I don’t even know where to begin… with the fact that for the past two weeks I have barely slept at all and they have left a very strong mark on my life and on how a normal day unfolds for me now, or with how everything actually happened and how they are mocking me — and I’m sure other clients as well.

I am a very large sports bettor, and I’ve had an account at Cloudbet for several years. For quite a while, I stopped betting in crypto and only bet in FIAT with bookmakers in my country. Recently, about six months ago, I started betting in crypto again.

A very good friend of mine is also a client and VIP player at Cloudbet, with over $30 million wagered. His account was blocked for a ridiculous and very strange reason — once again, a total abuse in his case as well. Someone tried to hack his account and then entered the chat and started writing lies in his name, and Cloudbet blocked his account with $100,000 in it. For him, that amount didn’t mean much, because he had started wagering millions of dollars monthly.

When his account was temporarily closed for investigation, he still believed that this company was serious, because he didn’t imagine that what I am about to explain happened to me would follow (otherwise he would have advised me not to play here). He used crypto exclusively for betting; all of his crypto funds were strictly for betting, and he had started betting mostly on Cloudbet.

When his account was blocked without being given a clear timeframe for when it would be reopened, he proposed that I buy some of his crypto and pay him in fiat cash, in our local currency. It was beneficial for him to exchange his money, since he could no longer use it for deposits on Cloudbet and didn’t want to be tempted to gamble it at casino sites (because on other sites he couldn’t place the large sports bets he usually makes — only Cloudbet allowed him to bet such large amounts — so having crypto in his wallet would have tempted him to use it for slots at online casinos).

He offered me an advantageous price for the crypto, and I bought crypto from him. He sent me the funds, and I planned to use them afterward. I decided to bet on Cloudbet.

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The entire betting session lasted 2 or 3 days.

I started by depositing amounts like $20k, $30k, $50k. I ended up losing approximately $200,000 in 1–2 days. After that, I recovered and eventually reached $550,000 in my account balance.

I made some withdrawals at different times — first around $200,000, then another $100,000. After the first $200,000 remained pending for almost 20 hours without being approved, and after I withdrew another $100,000 (bringing the total pending withdrawals to $300,000), Cloudbet initially rejected the withdrawals, and a few dozen minutes later, they blocked my account.

I want to state very clearly that I have extensive knowledge about how this industry works, as well as very important friends in this field and influential people on social media with hundreds of thousands of views on posts about betting and abusive bookmakers.

Why do I mention this? First of all, to make it clear that I know how things work. I am not a betting abuser. I did not place anything speculative or suspicious. Everything was 100% fair betting — clean betting.

These people simply did not want to pay me, and first they blocked the account, and only afterward did they start looking for a reason to justify it. Almost three weeks have passed and they still have not given me any concrete answer, only that the investigation can take up to six months.

Some people on chat tell me it will take exactly six months, others say up to six months — there is a total lack of transparency and coordination within their team. Nothing is clear, because so far the case is simply pending and they don’t care.

Regarding the bets: 99% of my bets were on tennis. Mostly on Davis Cup and Tier 1 tournaments — ATP and WTA — plus a few on Challenger tournaments.

A batch of 20–30 total bets placed over 2–3 days could not possibly require more than 1–2 days of investigation from the moment the review started. It is practically impossible to justify a timeframe of up to six months to finalize an investigation (which in reality does not even exist). It is impossible that three weeks pass without restoring access to my account and funds.

One important thing to mention is that I invested over $200,000. It is unacceptable and inadmissible to decide to invest over $200,000 in a bookmaker, having calculations and money management in place, depositing with the understanding that you can withdraw at any time if necessary, and then have your funds blocked for up to six months. Where have you ever seen something like this?

To invest $200,000 and then be unable to access your own money for six months, while support staff effectively mock you.

I also have an account manager. He simply does not do his job. He is online only 2–3 hours per day at most, and only 2 days per week. That practically means he is almost nonexistent.

The problem is that chat support redirects me to the account manager; they say they cannot help and that I must wait up to six months. The account manager does not respond, and when he does, his tone makes it seem as if I should feel bothersome for asking for help — as if I am the last person on earth and as if $550k being blocked is no big deal.

They cannot invoke any reason, not even proxy usage, because sometimes their site does not function properly from my country — it runs very slowly. Kevin, their VIP administrator and my account manager, asked me months ago from which country I was playing, and I explained where I was playing from and that I sometimes use a proxy because the site does not function properly with my internet provider. He had nothing to say against it and did not indicate it was a problem, so I do not expect Cloudbet to invoke such reasons.

I am experiencing health problems because of the stress this situation has created — the frustration of how I am being treated and the injustice that exists with no one able to hold them accountable.

I am absolutely convinced that such situations happen behind the scenes with many people and that they commit abuses.

It is simply impossible that after three weeks they have not unlocked my account and granted access to the $550,000 won fairly.

I have repeatedly told them, both in chat and on Telegram to my account manager, that I will make this case public everywhere on the internet — and when I say everywhere, I truly mean everywhere, because I have the ability to take this case even to TV news and make it go viral. A desperate person who is denied access to $550k after initially losing $200k is willing to do anything — capable of anything — when holding the truth and being forced to endure abuse. Unfortunately, they do not realize this, or they do not care, or they are not aware of how far a client can go in such a situation. If until now other clients have said the same but taken no action, they may not realize that there might be someone who will not accept this treatment and will actually take serious measures and be willing to do whatever it takes for justice.

Resolved

Account closed for betting integrity review

I was not able to access my account as of end October and when i contacted cloudbet they told me there is an ongoing betting integrity investigation of my account that can take up to 6 months! My account balance is 150usd and I contacted them saying I understand if they want to do any investigation or checking, as I have done nothing wrong, but blocking the account that has 150usd in it for 6 months is illogical and unacceptable. I told them, by using such excuses, you can block hundreds of accounts and use our money for funding your operations and then after 6months you open our accounts and do the same with others. How on earth can possibly take 6 months to investigate 5 or 6 bets that I have placed when murder cases are solved withing months and suspects caught. This is extremely unpleasant to say the least, I have to wait and keep checking my mail to have access to my account is not acceptable.

Please help me get an answer and unblock my account.

Resolved

$150