Hazard1

I self-excluded myself from Trada back in mid 2017. Recently I joined another AG casino and was playing happily when suddenly they just shut me down for no reason. When I enquired they said that I used to be a Trada member and they had bought Trada - like I was supposed to know this. I asked for my deposits back as they took 48 hours to verify my details - then waited days before shutting me off. This seems a bit rich to say the least no?

I like the casinos that have the 'lock withdrawal' option but sadly not many do. The worst thing that can be done in my opinion is that they reverse your withdrawal without your permission and I think that should be illegal, if it isn't already. That has happened to me and a gambler will always likely try their luck once they see the cash in their balance

i think it is scandalous that they have this 'bug'. I have stopped playing NETENT online BJ because of this and also because I could not get the casino to admit it was happening even though it was so clear. We live in a high tech world were such a thing should not be happening. By studying this phenomenon I logged 8000 hands and found some scary findings; I altered my behaviour based on this study and went from an RTP of 83.4% (yes you are reading that right - with correct strategy too) to 99.6%. Here is the basic equation for things: Game is not random, it is pseudo-random. Players spot this and complain, Casinos say 'eCogra' and that is the end of it. A game checked by people funded by the game provider I think? tut tut

Maybe this has been posted before and if so apologies but I have seen something when I play online Blackjack that I do not like and I think thet it should be dealt with by somebody. When paying NETENT online BJ (not the live game) I began to notice a pause when you bust. For example, say I have 12 and need to hit, if the next card is value 10 then there is a small pause and then the busting card is dealt. Now, I have noticed that busting directly from 12 to 22 is something that happens 72.4% of the time (checked over 8000 hands), but that is another issue. Also, the pause occurs when you hit 21 from 12, so there are two situations where the pause occurs. I have checked this with friends and family and they all agree 100% that there is a pause. Why is this the case? I raised it with the casino but they just came back and said it must be your browser, which is nonsense; I asked then to take it up with the provider (NETENT) but then they just disappeared on me. Before anyone accuses me of being a bad loser, I am not, my RTP over 32,000 hands is close to expectation, but this pause is not a good thing. It doesn't matter how much the casino quotes 'independent audits etc etc' the fact is that this game has patterns and I find that unacceptable in what is supposed to be a highly professional game provider. I know that others have seen this, so what s your opinion? Unacceptable or so-what? Mark H

I like gambling and my RTP's are fine thank you but having a high expectation of independence, is that a weakness? Surely it is the very foundation of this site?

Hi folks Has anyone see noticed the following: I have been playing regular BJ on one of the big sites that uses one of the big software providers. I was happy with the game, my winnings in line with good strategy and all seems well except I noticed something curious. Whenever I was at the last bet of a bankroll the 'RNG' would somehow give me a very attractive split or double options that would mean that I had to do a fresh deposit. At first I thought I was going crazy but then it happened every time. Additionally, the dealer tends to get more BJ's in this scenario. It was happening all the time so I raised it with the Casino and they just gave me the usual, 'all our games are tested'. I have no complaints about the card distribution in the actual game, streaky dealer miracles aside (but everyone says that) This seems to me to be a clear 'incentive to deposit' and whilst we are grown-ups and can make our own decisions, when you have two nice Aces to split, it's very very tempting to go to cashier! Surely either illegal or at least, horrible cynical. Anyone else seen this? Best wishes

So I couldn't be more wrong eh? e-Cogra was founded by the industry and even when it went private it was with the same people. You think that is really independent? Really? Online blackjack is subject to the clever theory of marginal gains, unproveable by punters. The clearest of these is the 10 after 12 ratios for the player.

The argument always put forward is that after playing tens of millions of hands the card distribution will be as expected. I don't doubt this is the case. That is not what makes many players a bit suspicious of NETENT. It's the patterns that are worrying for many players not the overall card distribution. I monitored many thousands of hands and found that the card distribution was as expected. What was not expected were the runs of wins for the house. Here are the classics that turn people off NETENT BJ: Try it yourself. 1. % of times dealer gets 10 as first card 2. % of times dealer then gets another 10 3. How the double and split opportunity comes when you are at the end of a bankroll 4. You have 12 and hit, enjoy those 22's 5. Multihand - the curse of the single BJ for you, watch the other hands 6. The pause before the bust 7. The Rtp for higher bets Casino defenders will say 'oh, he has had a bad run, it will hit the expected rtp in the end', or ask if I play perfect strategy. I do, and I win just a bit less than it should be, on £1 bets my rtp is averaging 99.5 - 101; on £10's it is 97.3 and on 25's it is 90.9. I gave it 8000 hands and then switched game provider. Now i am a happy player. At rtp 99.72 this year it's a small price for a lot of fun playing the game many of us love. The reason i pitched in on this oldish thread was because i decided to check how things were. `Only played 200 hands but all the above list happened again. Could it be rigged? No of course not, eCogra make sure it's perfectly fair. Probably just me. Or maybe you too? Worth checking against my list eh? Just to be sure. PS Love their slots.

I read all this with interest as I had had some suspicions playing NETENT. I have now stopped playing their BJ completely. I played more than 30,000 hands and I noted some very clear things. It seems that if you quote that you have, for example, played 10,000 hands then someone will just say that you need to play many millions to approach a random distribution. So the player cannot do that and rely on statements that talk about companies that do monitor RTP's and the software. I cannot find an independent one. they are all funded by the gambling industry and/or software providers. Anyway, I didn't lose big on NETENT but I did notice some patterns that concerned me. Of course I wrote to the Casino customer support and just got the standard paragraphs back about testing. Some contributors on this thread claim that nothing is wrong and if it was it would be discovered and all over the news. I disagree, how do you prove it? We are always told that it is all tested and random, but we must take their word. Anyway, here are the patterns that I have monitored; I would describe these as 'marginal gains' where certain behaviours are tiny but will make a difference. The first thing is based on the primary goal of a Casino, to make profit. Profit will be made relative to deposits. The house edge will generate it's profit but the revenue levels are about getting more and more people to deposit. More deposits, more revenue, more profits. On the front side we see this in the Bonus offers and bright lights, that's to bring you in and it works very well. There is another thing though - the new deposit. What I started to notice when playing NETENT BJ was that whenever I came to the last bet of my bankroll I would get a very good opportunity to split or double. But I don't have any more money so I need a new deposit. I thought I was just being paranoid but it happened too often so I started to monitor it. It's not going to be picked up in a test is it? Second pattern is the issue of 10 cards. When the dealer has a 10 then the chances of getting a second 10 are 4/13. But I saw between 6-7/13, sometimes 6,7, 8 times in a row. Third key one is the busting on a 12. You should get a 10 card 4/13 times but it is higher, I had one 'streak' where I got a 73.6% 12 to bust on a 10 ratio. It is always higher than it should be. I am an experienced BJ player in both land casinos and online and I do fine thank you, but these are patterns that I have seen and I am not saying they are deliberate and that NETENT is cheating us, it could be that the software simply has faults, but these are real patterns. I have identified a few more, but these are the main three. In summary: 1. A higher than normal number of double or split opportunities on the final bet of your bankroll 2. A higher than normal number of ten cards followed by ten cards for the dealer 3. Player getting a 10 card more often than is expected when hitting on a 12. I would be interested to know if anyone else had seen these particular patterns, as opposed to the usual complaints that the dealer always hits a miracle 21

I think that deep down all Gamblers know that there is no true independent body acting on our behalf. If there was then there would be no need for AskGamblers. An example would be, say you lost 30 hands in a row in BJ, every time you get 20, the dealer gets 21 etc etc. You cannot win. You feel that this is unfair but you read the internet chats, Casinomeister etc and you are always told that if you play enough hands (millions0 it will all be fair in the end. Of course, you will never be able to prove anything and testing would prove that the spread of results was as expected, if you were capable of testing. Yet many nice and smart people who are not paranoid think there is something wrong. Imagine then that you contacted eCogra and let them know whet you think - you will get the same stock answer as on Casinomeister et al - all our games showed a spread of results when 1 billion hands were tested. You have nowhere to go. The UKGC are not going to listen, they will give you the same stock answers. Defenders of the industry (i.e. people in the industry or closely associated) will say that the casinos do not need to fix anything, the house edge is enough. This is true, but some casinos have been found to fix things. The technique is called marginal gain theory and it is very clever. If you are playing online and see patterns, be wary. If the patterns repeat change game or casino. If enough people spot patterns then sites like this will help a lot. If you want to check your favourite casino, make an effort to check the following examples, all of which are classic marginal gain programming (sometimes called 'your bad luck') 1. Every time you hit on 12, see how many times it is a 10 card you draw - should be 4/13x. 2. If there is a split or double opportunity whenever you are betting the last bet of your roll... 3. The number of times that the dealer in BJ gets 10 followed by 10 - should be 4/13 There are a number of key others, but try those three for starters and then if you are finding that the randomness is not quite random then change casino. It's no use asking the UKGC or eCogra, they will tell you you are just unlucky and the game is perfect The best way to vote is with your virtual feet

I analysed 8000 hands in a row because I was a little suspicious. I believe that there is something wrong but that it is basically impossible to prove because a player cannot afford to test a million hands. First of all, it is easy to alter the program but the skill is to alter it smartly enough that it is impossible to prove. Here is what I have found (and as a result stopped playing online BJ): - the amount of times that the dealer gets a ten card when they already have a ten card is higher than it should be; it should be ~4/13. It isn't, it's higher. - when you have a 12 and hit you should get a 10 card bust ~4/13 but you don't, it's more often. - the pause before a bust is well documented and easily observed yet the makers don't cure it. - there are other small things - they are known as the theory of marginal gains and they are akin to the chocolate bar manufacturers reduction in grammage whilst maintaining price. Online BJ is the great undocumented and undocumentaried thing; nobody can prove it because the answer will always be that your sample was not large enough. I'll finish by asking if any of you know who funds the 'independent testers' because even 'independent' is a vague term in online gambling. My RTP last year was 99.6% on $36,000, I like online gambling and that's a great price for lots of fun, but if the casino you use shows signs of the marginal behaviours I mention, do yourself a favour. Not all of us gamblers are just paranoid.

I love playing BJ and I love gambling online but I do find that the 'independent testing' thing seems rather vague. For example - eCogra are quoted at you when you suggest an error or a glitch, or some strange behaviour of the software. As far as I can tell, there is nothing independent about eCogra at all - I mean ,they must be funded by someone - isn't it just the gaming industry?

Does anyone have an opinion on what the Casino's refer to as 'independent testing'? I find that all roads had to 'testers' funded by the industry.

For those of you interested I am referring to Genting

Thanks Marathon, it's very strange, it seems that this thing with the 10's is obvious to many people and yet there is no comeback for the Casinos. I love playing online but shouldn't we expect a fair game? It just seems we have no rights really, which is why I asked the question at the start. When I question the Casino they just send a standard reply 'All our games are tested by (insert company not really independent). I guess the answer is we have nobody on our side.