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I've witnessed many threads recently regarding N1 Casino and their bonus rules claiming they don't allow two accounts using the same ip address. However, as anyone with any knowledge whatsoever about ip configuration would know, ip addresses are reused in a timely fashion within the bounds of dynamic ip setup. Some internet providers more commonly reuse ip addresses than others but since your current ip most likely have been in use multiple times before you use it, the bonus terms in N1 Casino are very likely to put users in breach of the terms. As I can see it in the threads I've analyzed, N1 Casino and hence the Askgamblers mods, are allowing this juridically weak argument for closing down winning accounts in a subjective and horrible matter. It would be great if the players at least could KNOW how to follow the rules, either by showing more specific evidence in such threads or not allowing accounts be played at or created by the same ip address.

 

I've never heard of any losses returned to the player due to multiple accounts and I guess we'll never see any...

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I've witnessed many threads recently regarding N1 Casino and their bonus rules claiming they don't allow two accounts using the same ip address. However, as anyone with any knowledge whatsoever about ip configuration would know, ip addresses are reused in a timely fashion within the bounds of dynamic ip setup. Some internet providers more commonly reuse ip addresses than others but since your current ip most likely have been in use multiple times before you use it, the bonus terms in N1 Casino are very likely to put users in breach of the terms. As I can see it in the threads I've analyzed, N1 Casino and hence the Askgamblers mods, are allowing this juridically weak argument for closing down winning accounts in a subjective and horrible matter. It would be great if the players at least could KNOW how to follow the rules, either by showing more specific evidence in such threads or not allowing accounts be played at or created by the same ip address.

 

I've never heard of any losses returned to the player due to multiple accounts and I guess we'll never see any...

 

Maybe you could elaborate more on this...what exactly have we allowed?

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Maybe you could elaborate more on this...what exactly have we allowed?

 

At some degree you have accepted their ruling when you regard their evidence as adequate and the matter as "solved". I have quoted three recent threads below where none of the players seem to have opened multiple accounts themselves. Ip addresses are mostly dynamic and there is a very high probability that your current ip has been used by a player before. I am fed up with these kind of horrible rulings and it seems the casinos can do pretty much what they feel like regarding payment issues. If the casino rules would prohibit the use of the same internet browser as another user, do you consider it a legitimate claim for confiscation of winnings?

 

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/n1-casino-bonus-winnings-removed-due-to-duplicate-accounts

 

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/n1-casino-unfairly-accused-of-having-multiple-accounts

 

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/n1-casino-refuse-to-pay-4000eur

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Common term across 99% of casinos. Personally, they should be following it up by linking the 'other' person to the same address and/or seeing if the 'other' person actually exists (electoral register checks and/or many of the other data points).

 

Personally, if i logged into a hotels wifi....registered...won and got it refused because there were another 300 users with the same IP address I'd not be a happy bunny. That's not protecting against abusers, that's just taking someone's winnings. Just my View and i'm sure Valdes may disagree... :p

 

Happened at BETAT...asked me there was a user with same IP. I said yes, Mrs Pinnit. Is it ok? They confirmed she existed and all was fine. So we have 2 accounts at the address. 

 

We have many a 2 accounts at our address - all approved, presumably because they know we are 2 separate people. Well, the good casinos anyway. 

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I am one of those who's account recently have been subjected to this horrible treatment by N1Casino and from you here at Askgamblers who actually allow them to act like this. There is absolutely no possibility that someone else has registered an account on my current ip-adress, cause i use my phone and the ip-adress you get from your mobile network resets every time you restart your telephone. In other words, they either making this all up, or it is like Hulman2 says that someone earlier has had the same ip-address that i currently have, and that is due to ip-addresses tend to get re-used. Either way it is disgraceful that they are allowed to act like this. 

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Common term across 99% of casinos. Personally, they should be following it up by linking the 'other' person to the same address and/or seeing if the 'other' person actually exists (electoral register checks and/or many of the other data points).

 

Personally, if i logged into a hotels wifi....registered...won and got it refused because there were another 300 users with the same IP address I'd not be a happy bunny. That's not protecting against abusers, that's just taking someone's winnings. Just my view and i'm sure Valdes may disagree... :p

 

Happened at Betat...asked me there was a user with same IP. I said yes, Mrs Pinnit. Is it ok? They confirmed she existed and all was fine. So we have 2 accounts at the address. 

 

We have many a 2 accounts at our address - all approved, presumably because they know we are 2 separate people. Well, the good casinos anyway. 

 

 

I understand what you mean and I respect that the casino uses ip information to gather evidence against a player that uses two accounts. But what if you did not log into a public or general wifi but just happened to get the same ip address as a previous player when you restart your own personal router? Or played from your mobile phone...

 

Threads like those quoted above should be filled with information that actually proves the duality of a player. If an account was created a long time ago in another country or with similar evidence in favor of the player, then the player deserves to know it so he or she could file a formal complaint to the MGA or the court directly.

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I understand what you mean and I respect that the casino uses ip information to gather evidence against a player that uses two accounts. But what if you did not log into a public or general wifi but just happened to get the same ip address as a previous player when you restart your own personal router? Or played from your mobile phone...

 

Threads like those quoted above should be filled with information that actually proves the duality of a player. If an account was created a long time ago in another country or with similar evidence in favor of the player, then the player deserves to know it so he or she could file a formal complaint to the MGA or the court directly.

I agree to an extent....not everyone is clued up....i think it's reasonable that a person who, whilst having a coffee and decides to sign up via their wifi (not recommended as it's frequently unsecure!), doesn't necessarily think 'oh, public wifi, same IP address, better not!'

 

It's there as a rule to protect casinos. But i'd be very disappointed if a casino adopted a literal, hard, enforcement of their terms especially if they were assured these were two different people. Case by case basis would provide the best remedy - as in my case above.

 

I'm not a contract lawyer but there are the principles of equity in it - i think a court, having seen how the casino knew it was 2 different person but yet was still a breach, may not necessarily come down on the side of the casino despite it being a term. We'll probably never know though as few cases go that far.

 

But lets think of why the term is there in the first place....player fraud. We greedy individuals have our part to play. Can't remember the stats but there is by far more player fraud on the go that any rogue casino - just to give it context and maybe show why casinos adopt this approach...

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It's the same as max bet breach...yes, it's against the terms. But tell me this? Why do casino allow you to exceed the max bet, why do some allow you to Play restricted games? Again....to safeguard them...well, if they want safeguarded then why not use the technology at their disposal to do so. They donlt because they can trot out the old terms breached, should you beat the house...

 

Some casino's are excellent in how they manage the genuine 'mistakes' - they void the winnings from the Spin, they offer a Second Chance (Trada casino being one of the equitable and ethical out there in doing this)...some use it as a way of confiscating all the funds. 

 

What i've found as a player is that if i Play at a decent place, make a genuine mistake that they can see, I'll be OK. 

 

We all have thoughts on this - i get that terms are there for a reason but it's a sad day when common sense and fairness falls by the wayside. 

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I am one of those who's account recently have been subjected to this horrible treatment by N1Casino and from you here at Askgamblers who actually allow them to act like this. There is absolutely no possibility that someone else has registered an account on my current ip-adress, cause i use my phone and the ip-adress you get from your mobile network resets every time you restart your telephone. In other words, they either making this all up, or it is like Hulman2 says that someone earlier has had the same ip-address that i currently have, and that is due to ip-addresses tend to get re-used. Either way it is disgraceful that they are allowed to act like this. 

 

Maybe we should make something clear then.

 

We have absolutely no control over how N1 Casino "act". I'm not entirely sure what you think we can actually do? We're a mediator and your complaint was already reopened to try and help you both resolve it.

 

Our complaints team received the proof and that's why the complaint is considered as resolved. I don't work in the complaints team, I can't answer what was reveived by them but our other admin will reply as soon as he sees this.

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Maybe we should make something clear then.

 

We have absolutely no control over how N1 Casino "act". I'm not entirely sure what you think we can actually do? We're a mediator and your complaint was already reopened to try and help you both resolve it.

 

Our complaints team received the proof and that's why the complaint is considered as resolved. I don't work in the complaints team, I can't answer what was reveived by them but our other admin will reply as soon as he sees this.

 

I have not accused you of conspiring with N1 Casino. Neither am I the one who filed any of the complaints. I simply observed the fact that the kind of evidence - random ip cross checking in this case - seems to be sufficent according to your complaints department. I am just discussing the evidence chain of proof and my conclusion is that you should either use more transparancy in your complaint files or maybe question the juridical aspects of it. Gamblers have enough difficulties following the already and we have the odds against us, Let us be aware of when the casino sites simply use the lack of functioning regulations to scam us...

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I have not accused you of conspiring with N1 Casino. Neither am I the one who filed any of the complaints. I simply observed the fact that the kind of evidence - random ip cross checking in this case - seems to be sufficent according to your complaints department. I am just discussing the evidence chain of proof and my conclusion is that you should either use more transparancy in your complaint files or maybe question the juridical aspects of it. Gamblers have enough difficulties following the already and we have the odds against us, let us be aware of when the casino sites simply use the lack of functioning regulations to scam us...

 

I understand...I guess we should just wait for the other admin to reply who works in the complaints department regarding this one.

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I agree to an extent....not everyone is clued up....i think it's reasonable that a person who, whilst having a coffee and decides to sign up via their wifi (not recommended as it's frequently unsecure!), doesn't necessarily think 'oh, public wifi, same IP address, better not!'

 

It's there as a rule to protect casinos. But i'd be very disappointed if a casino adopted a literal, hard, enforcement of their terms especially if they were assured these were two different people. Case by case basis would provide the best remedy - as in my case above.

 

I'm not a contract lawyer but there are the principles of equity in it - i think a court, having seen how the casino knew it was 2 different person but yet was still a breach, may not necessarily come down on the side of the casino despite it being a term. We'll probably never know though as few cases go that far.

 

But lets think of why the term is there in the first place....player fraud. We greedy individuals have our part to play. Can't remember the stats but there is by far more player fraud on the go that any rogue casino - just to give it context and maybe show why casinos adopt this approach...

 

Hear hear. But how common is "player fraud" and how do you even define it? I think we can agree on why some casinos request pictures of you and all your personal belongings in every possible angle and it is not because of some money laundering act but to make it as hard as possible to actually get a Hold of your winnings. One time a even had to pay for a notarization of the documents I provided to the casino even though I had Lost 10 times the sum in previous sessions.

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I think it’s pretty common. I was talking to someone who works within one of their departments and they were telling me they cut back on their bonus offerings until they worked out how to combat some of the rings.

 

Anyone who deals with complaints in MGA or here for example will tell you all the tricks ;-) There was a publication somewhere I’ll try find.

 

In terms of how common...the UKGC think casinos are an easy target for money laundering etc. I’m not so convinced but certainly it’s on people’s agenda.

 

All of it’s not helped by these Money laundering Directives. They aren’t rule based - they don’t say exactly what casinos must do - rather they say ‘must have controls in place’. I agree with this approach - having worked in audit, rules based approaches don’t work. Downside is that it leaves it to the casinos to determine their procedures that meet the requirement. This is why we’re seeing different approaches to how things are implemented - some are common sense, some are mental quite frankly.

 

The UKGC, finally, has started to say that casinos shouldn’t withhold money from people without due reason. No doubt things like pending periods are a ploy for more revenue. Casinos requiring more verification even though it was done months ago - they claim they do it as the ML regulations require continuous reviewing of clients, for example. That’s nonsense. The regulations ask them to look for triggers to changes in circumstances, not arbitrarily re checking people. Again, an example of how some get it wrong.

 

What we may see is, as mooted, pre registration KYC checks. Hopefully that will cut back on some of the issues.

 

I agree that, unlike many businesses, the ability of online casinos to withhold money is an issue. They know people won’t have the time, nor money, to take it further to a court etc. But hopefully the ADRs can, and do, help here.

 

Me? Any unreasonable withholding of funds would be met with a fine every time. You’d be amazed how that would serve as an incentive.

 

I may be tempting fate but....i only Play at places I have reasonable faith in. Play at these places and, providing you Play nice, you’ll not have a problem in the main. Play at not so reputable places? Well...

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Thing is with online casinos, bar bitcoin( though now falling under the money laundering regulations now), is that it’s all so traceable... ML loves faceless cash.

 

You ever noticed shops with no customers but open 16 hrs a day? Noticed the tanning and nail salons that pop up on every high street if you’re in the UK anyhow? Ripe for ML.

 

Casinos? Withdrawal back to same method of deposit for most, can check names to sort codes and bank accounts etc. That’s why I think, if I was a ML, I’d not go to a casino. If I did? It’d be land based :-)

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And as for what constitutes player fraud... I’ll defer to Mr Valdes here who through his work will probably have seen and know of this more than me :-)

 

Ones persons bonus abuse ring is another’s ‘evening the playing field’ :-p

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I've witnessed many threads recently regarding N1 Casino and their bonus rules claiming they don't allow two accounts using the same ip address. However, as anyone with any knowledge whatsoever about ip configuration would know, ip addresses are reused in a timely fashion within the bounds of dynamic ip setup. Some internet providers more commonly reuse ip addresses than others but since your current ip most likely have been in use multiple times before you use it, the bonus terms in N1 Casino are very likely to put users in breach of the terms. As I can see it in the threads I've analyzed, N1 Casino and hence the Askgamblers mods, are allowing this juridically weak argument for closing down winning accounts in a subjective and horrible matter. It would be great if the players at least could KNOW how to follow the rules, either by showing more specific evidence in such threads or not allowing accounts be played at or created by the same ip address.

 

I've never heard of any losses returned to the player due to multiple accounts and I guess we'll never see any...

 

 

I am one of those who's account recently have been subjected to this horrible treatment by N1Casino and from you here at Askgamblers who actually allow them to act like this. There is absolutely no possibility that someone else has registered an account on my current ip-adress, cause i use my phone and the ip-adress you get from your mobile network resets every time you restart your telephone. In other words, they either making this all up, or it is like Hulman2 says that someone earlier has had the same ip-address that i currently have, and that is due to ip-addresses tend to get re-used. Either way it is disgraceful that they are allowed to act like this. 

 

First of all, hello there and welcome to AskGamblers. 

 

Regarding the complaints... Well, no conspiracy here as far as I can see since all these AGCCS cases have been confirmed by AskGamblers complaints Team for a good reason and namely - proven violation of one or more of the relevant casino and/or bonus terms. 

 

Regarding the so called dynamic IPs... Yes, I can assure you our complaints team is pretty well in aware of your concerns that matching IP address could be jst a matter of a coincidence, hence they always request at least one more matching personal identifier before confirming the relevant player's violation and the consequent casino actions. The facts are that we have been provided with undisputed evidence that there were in fact two more matching personal identifiers (except the IP address) in one of the aforementioned cases and three more in the other two cases. Obviously, when the facts speak there is nothing more we could do to help. Still, in case of a disagreement with the decisions taken by the AskGamblers complaints Team you are more than welcome to forward the issue in front of the relevant regulatory body of course. And since no one here at AskGamblers claims we are infallible and it happens that the regulator rules the case in your favor, please feel free to Let us know and we'll comply with their decision immediately. 

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Hey guys

My winnings of £920 were confiscated due to IP recycling on West Casino. I live in Northern Ireland and apparently months previously the same IP address was used for a player in England and this is the only evidence that has been used to confiscate my winnings.  The whole dispute is so blatantly obvious that it is IP recycling but ask gamblers decided to vote in their favour.

@askgamblers, you've bolded 'at least one more matching personal identifier'. Can you please do this for my complaint as you havn't done so.  You've only taken into consideration a screen shot that was sent by West Casino which showed 2 accounts using the same IP address.  

Many thanks,

James

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1 hour ago, jpearce622sb said:

Hey guys

My winnings of £920 were confiscated due to IP recycling on West Casino. I live in Northern Ireland and apparently months previously the same IP address was used for a player in England and this is the only evidence that has been used to confiscate my winnings.  The whole dispute is so blatantly obvious that it is IP recycling but ask gamblers decided to vote in their favour.

@askgamblers, you've bolded 'at least one more matching personal identifier'. Can you please do this for my complaint as you havn't done so.  You've only taken into consideration a screen shot that was sent by West Casino which showed 2 accounts using the same IP address.  

Many thanks,

James

Hi James and welcome to the AskGamblers Forum. 

Following your query I could confirm we stand 100% behind the aforementioned post.  The only difference in your case however was that instead of one more matching personal identifier we got from the casino management proof for one more IP matching  other registered accounts claiming the same welcome package. One matching IP could be a coincidence, but two... 

 Again: 

Quote

Still, in case of a disagreement with the decisions taken by the AskGamblers complaints Team you are more than welcome to forward the issue in front of the relevant regulatory body of course. And since no one here at AskGamblers claims we are infallible and it happens that the regulator rules the case in your favor, please feel free to Let us know and we'll comply with their decision immediately. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the response.

I have been totally unaware of this information, what I have been supplied with from eCOGRA was evidence showing that my account had been linked with another user bedfordkate****. Who is in no way affiliated to myself who also resides in England and I live in Northern Ireland.  Our register dates are months apart so it would be highly unlikely that dynamic IP addresses would have been the same from the same ISP.  Would you be able to show me the other IP address links, I'd be more than happy to drop the case if I believed it was infact my fault and it could have been avoided. 

Many thanks,

James

 

Edited by ValDes
Screenshot removed - containing sensitive personal information.

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Please pay attention to the AGCCS Terms and more specifically to this one below: 

Quote
  • The information exchanged during the complaint process between player and AskGamblers, and casino representatives and AskGamblers is strictly confidential and is not disclosed to third parties. 

You may either trust the AskGamblers complaints Team OR simply take the case further in front of the relevant ADR or the regulatory body itself. 

Thanks. 

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Of course, I understand that it's completely confidential. I'm confused as to why it's the first time I've heard it's been linked to more than 1 IP address and all evidence submitted to eCOGNA from West Casino only showed it was one other account/ IP address. Quite strange.  

Would you also be able to explain how the winnings were confiscated from a promotional email that I received and clearly were not part of the welcome bonus which they say it was.

This is besides the point of my IP address being recycled but it is to show that I claimed this offer from a specific email promotion. 
 
Terms quite clearly state:

* The Promotion is active for the following 48hrs.

* This Promotion cannot be combined with other on-going or special promotions.

It can't be connected to the welcome package if it clearly states the promotion cannot be combined with other on-going promotions. 

Unless the other user had claimed this same promotion within the same 48 hours as I had done then it would have breached the stated terms and conditions. 

I will however submit your comment to eCOGNA to hopefully receive the additional information regarding the third IP address being the same. 

I understand that you guys get a lot of complaints regrading matters like this but I genuinely believe this was just a massive coincidence and  appreciate all the help you can do.

Kind regards,

James

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Hmm, not quite sure whether you are referring to eCOGRA but if so and you have already forwarded your case to them, please keep us updated. 

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Yes apologies for the typo. I was referring to eCOGRA. From their response so far they don't seem to look for more than 1 identifier unlike yourselves.  So it is black and white, basically I signed up to their terms knowing the fact IP address can be reused and that was breached so there is nothing else to it. Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent this happening in the future so I have emailed UK gambling commission for advise on fair consumer rights as to how this can happen, and that players have no control over this even if the chances of it happening are extremely slim. 

I'll keep you updated on the matter if the outcome changes. 

If theres anything else you can say or show me regarding this case I'll welcome it with open arms. :)

Thanks,
James

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Alright, thanks for the clarification. :)

Quick hint, hope you don't mind... Since you now confirmed filing official case with the ADR entity (eCOGRA) appointed by WestCasino, strongly encourage you to refrain from further public statements regarding your dispute and give the ADR enough time to do their job.  

Good luck. :good:

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