2winbet Casino - Violation of Basic Responsible Gaming Policy

UNRESOLVED
mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on August 28, 2015.

I self-excluded from 2winbet on 3rd August using the self-exclusion link in the 'my account' section of their site. I received a pop up box with a green tick confirming 'self-exclusion set'. I was able to log in the next day and continue to make deposits. I made further attempts to self-exclude using the same method but each time I was able to continue to log into my account. I rely heavily on the self-exclusion facility of online casinos as I frequently lose control when chasing losses. I have contacted 2winbet support who say to self-exclude I have to send them an email as written in their terms and conditions. I advised them that I did not find it necessary to read through the terms and conditions regarding self-exclusion as I found and used the facility linked to my account. It does not say in their terms and conditions that this link should be avoided as it does not work! I went on to deposit 4175 euros and this is the money I feel should be refunded as I should not have been able to continue to gamble with them after I had self-excluded. I took a photo of the confirmation of my self-exclusion days later as evidence that I was misled to believe that I had set a self-exclusion period of one year (there was a tick box offering 6 months or one year exclusion). As soon as I complained to 2winbet by email that they had breached the terms and conditions of responsible gaming policy they excluded my account.

posted on September 1, 2015.

Dear mummyjr,

Already we spoke via email and we say you the same things.

We have seen your email, regarding your Self Exclusion you can read on the Responsible game section according to our Rules, and Regulations, on the bottom that for your Complete Exclusion of the site you need to sent an email, if you noticed from Friday 7th August you can not log in to the site, this is the way our Site works.

When a customer Register to our site, agree with our terms & conditions. We have that kind of terms as Site, when you sent us an email we immediately closed your Account as we supposed to do.
Further on you can do whatever you suppose it is good for you


Best Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 1, 2015.

In response to your message, I am unsure why you are referring me to your terms and conditions. When I found it necessary to exclude myself due to loss of control, I was able to do so using the link in the "my account" section of your site and therefore did not need to refer to your terms and conditions to find out how to exclude myself. The instructions from the link were very clear and very convincing - I was given the option to self-exclude for 6 months or one year and I ticked the box requesting a one year self-exclusion, immediately a pop-up message with a green tick confirmed that my self-exclusion had been set. As a result of this confirmed self-exclusion I should not have been able to log into my account with 2winbet for one year but I was able to do so the very next day. It is my belief that you have two methods of self-exclusion, email (as per your terms and conditions) and a link within the "my account" section of your site (which I used), if the latter option is not accepted then why is it available? I truly thought that I was self-excluded until I found my account still open the next day allowing me to make further deposits totalling 4175 euros, deposits which should be null and void as a result of my self exclusion. I attach a screen shot of evidence that it was set. Patricia Nunn

posted on September 2, 2015.

Dear Patricia Nunn

When you register and you navigate to our site, you agree with our terms and conditions.
When you want to exclude your self Miss Patricia, we notify you for complete your self exclusion of your player account need to following our process. You need to respect and do it, because our system it works with this method but and we as a company. We would like to verify that you as Patricia Nunn and not someone else want to close your account, without you know anything about that. First of all, we want to protect our customers and for this reason for important actions like this, we want to get all requests in our support email.

We sent to you in your email, but I don't know why attack us without reason, because we following all the rules of our company.

I am waiting your reply.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 2, 2015.

If I have translated your message correctly you are saying that after I self-excluded I should have received an email from you to complete my self-exclusion? I did not receive such an email. You say that I was unable to log into my account from Friday 7th August, this is not true as I made deposits totalling 1170 euros on 10th August, 500 euros on 11th August, 200 euros on 12th August, 1720 euros on 13th August and 1950 euros on 14th August and I believe I am in my right to request a refund of these deposits as they should not have been rejected. I am aware of the responsible gaming policy which requires that when a player self-excludes this should be done without delay - I shouldn't have to wait for an email from you to confirm my identity! I am not attacking you but I certainly have good reason to raise a complaint and request a refund as I have been failed by your system - as a vulnerable player you have failed to protect me by allowing me to continue to gamble on your site after self-excluding. I cannot understand why you continue to dispute this, as you said previously I should not have been able to log into my account from 7th August. I await your reply. Patricia

posted on September 3, 2015.

Dear Patricia

We have told very detailed through our corporate email.
If you want to post all our emails here, we can do it. We don't have any problem to post it.
We said you from the first day, you should send us an email with your request to be locked permanently your player account.
On the day you sent the email, at the same time we excluded you.
I can not figure out what else you want.
We repeat it, when a player register in our page agrees with our terms and regulations and must observe them.

I am waiting your reply

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 4, 2015.

As confirmed by yourselves, my account was closed on 7th August but you allowed me to continue to gamble for a further week until I alerted you to the problem. You continued to accept deposits to my account and as such you have breached responsible gaming policy. I am willing to accept a refund of 50% of the deposits I made since self-excluding (2,000 euros) as clearly I am not solely responsible for my losses, something went wrong with the system and I think this is a reasonable request. If you are not happy to resolve this issue as I have suggested then I will have no alternative but to attempt to recover my money through the Small Claims Court in England. Patricia

posted on September 4, 2015.

Dear Patricia,

In 14/08/2015 when you sent us email, we are automatically blocked you.
We present now, the email messages you send us where you state that obviously do not want to read terms and conditions and that you have past ( history ) and perhaps standard practice to act in the same way in all the online casinos you play.
It was good to see this and other Casinos in order to protect those in their turn, their services, depending on your practice.

For us the matter is closed,
we urge you if you are really addicted, to visit a specific institute to help you.

We post your emails

On 3rd August after withdrawing 1000 euros I decided to count my losses and self-exclude from 2winbet as I had become addicted to the slots and was losing too much money. I followed the procedure for self-exclusion and a box appeared with a tick confirming the one year self exclusion. The next day I was able to log in and make further deposits and after several more attempts at self-excluding this week I have still been able to log in and make deposits. My latest attempt to self exclude was last night but this morning I was able to log in and make deposits to my 2winbet account.

I have looked through the history of my deposits since my first request to self-exclude on 3rd August and they total 7595 euros! I have been able to reclaim 3400 euros of this money by way of withdrawals but I have still lost 4195 euros since my first request to self-exclude and as such I am requesting that this money be refunded to me as I would not have been able to deposit this amount if the self-exclusion facility had worked.

I have taken a photograph of my computer screen following my request to self-exclude which shows that the self-exclusion has been set and I understand that the rules of responsible gaming require that 2winbet should not have permitted me access to gambling facilities whilst the self-exclusion period was in place (one year exclusion).

Please could you submit my complaint to your risk assessment team for their investigation.

Kind regards

Patricia Nunn

I didn't find it necessary to read your terms and conditions to discover how to self-exclude

I have encountered similar problems with other gambling sites and any deposits that I have made after a self-exclusion have been refunded with an apology and an admittance that I shouldn't have been able to continue to gamble with them after a self-exclusion.

I am waiting your reply.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 4, 2015.

Who exactly am I communicating with here please? Your last response was not typical of a customer service representative - is somebody from your management aware of the issue I have encountered? I have visited many casino sites, most have been trustworthy and honest and their responsible gaming policies very transparent. I have had problems with a few of them concerning responsible gaming but these have resulted from my being able to open new accounts with them after self-excluding and as previously stated, they have admitted an error and returned my money. I have never encountered a casino that has allowed me to continue to use an account I had self-excluded. I have not been at all defensive or abusive whilst communicating with you - I have not used the words "thieves" or "liars", "unprofessional" or "manipulative", I have merely stated the facts and provided you with evidence of my self-exclusion which surely cannot be disputed. This is not a fight but there is a lot of money involved here, some of which should not have changed hands and as I previously told you, I believe I am in my rights to request a refund. Patricia

posted on September 7, 2015.

Dear Patricia Nunn

I do not understand why you keep doing that you do not understand. You ask, who answer to you here and that our response is not typical. Miss Patricia know that, our response is utterly formal and correct.
We acknowledge from the outset, by registering you in our site as we speak, at all stages that have to respect and follow the conditions and our requirements.
If our company had made a mistake, he would have admitted and would compensate you.
But in this case, the mistake is yours and our decision is unchanged.
At the same time, We credited for weeks in your account, 10% cashback of the lost money at the Casino, as defined for each client and mentioned in our promotion about it.

You realize that as a company trying to solve the misunderstanding that exists from your side.
We never hid and always respond publicly and as directly as we can.

I am waiting your reply.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 7, 2015.

The reason I questioned who I was speaking to was because the customer service was very unprofessional - intimidating and somewhat aggressive. I did not like that you accused me of "perhaps acting in the same way with all casinos I play in". In England we call this libel or defamation of character. I do not try and get my deposits back from all casinos I play in, when I have had enough I self-exclude and if that self-exclusion is not adhered to then I have every right to request my money back. I have noticed that not once have you commented on the self-exclusion link on your site - what purpose does it serve if not to self-exclude? I have been trying to find contact details for your operator (according to the information on your site your Gambling Licence is held in the name of your operator, a London based company called Delta Informations Ltd but having looked up the address I have found a lot of companies registered with the same postcode but I cannot find Delta Informations Ltd - please could you give me the contact information for this company. We do not seem to be getting anywhere near reaching a satisfactory conclusion for both parties on this dispute and it might be better that we stop communicating and let Askgamblers take a look at all the evidence from both sides and submit their opinion. Patricia

posted on September 8, 2015.

Dear Patricia,

we answer to you in the previous pages, but we don't see it here.

I am waiting your reply.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 9, 2015.

complaint not resolved

posted on September 11, 2015.

Dear Patricia,

Our decision is final.

We told in detail that has happened.

We tell your from the first time, you must follow our terms and conditions.

If you follow our terms and conditions and our messages when we send them for the first time for your self exclusion now you would not have this discussion

We are open to all communications with you and all our customers.

We do not hide behind our finger.
Always act professionally, prudently and with respect to every customer.
We never accused you, but you wrote us here that have done the same actions and on other Casino.
If our customers need protection, we are able to provide it.
But it is not only up to us.
The procedure is the same for every customers, according to our rules and regulations.

Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 12, 2015.

I have nothing more to add. Patricia

posted on September 15, 2015.

We have nothing more to add in this discussion, Miss Patricia.
The decision is final and acted based on terms of use of our website.
Please understand it.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

mummyjr United Kingdom
posted on September 16, 2015.

Dear Ask Gamblers, please could your team look at the evidence presented from both sides and help to settle this dispute. Initially I could not find the terms and conditions of 2winbet as there is not a direct link to them. You have to click on 'frequently asked questions' to be directed to them. There is a separate link in respect of responsible gaming and the last line says "for your self-exclusion, when you wish, please inform us by email for the complete closure of your account". I didn't have need to look at the frequently asked questions when I decided to self-exclude because the self-exclusion link was in the 'my account section' of the site. I used the link and opted for a one year self-exclusion which was confirmed as set. I didn't want to close my account (I have learnt over the years that self-exclusion and account closure are two separate and completely different procedures). If I had not found the link for self-exclusion then I would obviously have emailed support to request this. I would just like to add that there are no instructions in the terms and conditions advising how to set limits on an account, presumably because the link for setting limits can also be accessed through the 'my account' section. I was misled to believe that I had self-excluded and this is why I submitted a complaint. Kind regards, Patricia

AskGamblers
posted on September 20, 2015.

We invite both parties to present evidence regarding this case. Evidence need to present clearly when exactly a self exclusion has been requested and when subsequent deposits were made.
All relevant documents please send to the AG Complaint Department at [email protected]

posted on September 24, 2015.

We can not understand why you continue to analyze an issue that is close to us. The decision is final and always acted in accordance with the terms and conditions given on our website.

Special Regards,
2winbet Team

AskGamblers
posted on September 24, 2015.

Based on the evidence presented from player, we could confirm the following facts:

1/ Player requested self exclusion from 2winbet Casino on August 14th at 01.20. The casino system displayed that the self exclusion period is set.
2/ Despite the successful self-exclusion end /as displayed by the casino system/, player was then been able to make further deposits as follows - 360 euro at 11.45, 390 euro at 12.09 and 500 euro at 12.42.

According to casino, player was supposed to request self-exclusion via sending email to specified address as this was the only way specified in casino terms and conditions and therefore, the above mentioned self exclusion procedure was not a legitimate one. However, we would like to point out two key moments concerning casino statements:

1/ Casino claims that there is only one legitimate procedure for requesting a self exclusion agreement, but then they left the option of requesting a self exclusion using the casino software under My account options to work. It was casino management's obligation to apply Responsible Gaming policy in a way which could not be considered as misleading.

2/ The Responsible Gaming Policy used by 2winbet Casino is not a valid part of their General Terms & Conditions, but a part of the casino FAQ stated on their website. There is a huge difference between FAQ and official Terms & Conditions, signed and accepted by any player who register at the casino.

Despite all the aforementioned facts and the obvious lack of adequate actions towards Responsible Gaming appliance on behalf 2winbet Casino, they refused to take responsibility and to refund players deposits made after the 'successful' self exclusion procedure /as reported by their own casino system/. Therefore, we consider this case as Unresolved.

The complaint is now officially closed.

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