Smart Live Casino removed winnings from my account

UNRESOLVED
posted on April 23, 2013.

I have a problem with SmartLive casino. I made a deposit and received the welcome bonus. I won around 5000 pounds there on Live Roulette. I was playing there for a few days when my winnings, 4500 pounds in total, suddenly disappeared from my account. I had not even requested a withdrawal.

I contacted Live Chat to ask about what had happened. I had carefully read the Terms before playing and I was absolutely sure some technical issue happened. They seemed to struggle to come up with an explanation at first, asking me to come back in an hour and so on. Then I was told that my winnings had been voided because I had already had an account at HeavenCasino casino and claimed a bonus there. Wow.

I asked to quote the term that prohibited this and they gave me a link to HeavenCasino casino terms which said that it (HeavenCasino) was part of an unnamed network and you can`t claim bonus at HeavenLive if you had claimed it elsewhere. So the smart SmartLive said they voided 4500 winnings using terms from ANOTHER casino as grounds for that. Can`t think of something more absurd, can you? Anyway, our discussion went on and after I explained this point they came up with a different excuse to void winnings. This time, they just quoted a general term about abuse,"In the event of any offer abuse being identified or suspected by the Casino, promotional bonuses will not be granted and management reserves the right to prohibit or exclude certain individuals, groups or regions from the promotions with immediate effect.", without caring to define it. And even the terms quoted said nothing about the right to remove winnings. I have the relevant chat transcripts.

It is shocking that a large UK-based operation treats its customers this way - the fraudulent "we keep your losses, we keep your winnings" attitude. They have no right to remove my winnings as I have not broken any of the Terms and my winnings should be credited back to my account and paid out when a withdrawal is requested.

posted on April 29, 2013.

Still haven't got a reply. Please, don't close this complaint.

posted on May 1, 2013.

Dear Izya78

First of all apologies for the inconvenience that you encountered. As explained to you before since Heaven Live Casino ( Winnerheaven) and Smart Live Casino operate under the same software you can only claim the promotion from one of the operators. This is stated in our terms and conditions very clearly. By accepting the t &c’s , you should be aware of the fact that by being a customer of Winner Heaven Casino you cannot be part of any other promotion from any of the affiliated sites Guruplay nor Winner Heaven Live. Simply due to the fact that they are part of the same structure. Since in your case there was a violation of the t &c’s your winnings were voided.

Please see the below section from our terms and conditions which clarifies the point ;

“3.8.2 Players should be aware that Smart Live Casino and Guruplay.com, Winner Heaven Live operate off the same software. Therefore any player who has accepted a sign up bonus from Guruplay or from Winner Heaven Live will not be eligible for a sign up bonus from Smart Live Casino. Should one be given to them then Smart Live Casino reserve the right to void the bonus and all winnings from bets placed on their account that involve the bonus, bonus winnings, the deposit related to the bonus, or any winnings from that deposit.”

And here is a link, if you wish to check it for yourself:

http:/­/li­vec­asi­no.s­ma­rtl­ive­gam­ing.co­m/t­erm­s-a­nd-­con­dit­ion­s.h­tml­?Cu­ltu­reC­ode=EN

Once again we are really sorry for the inconvenience and we sincerely hope that the information provided above would be at the best help.

Kind Regards

Smart Live Casino

posted on May 1, 2013.

Hello, thanks for your reply.

I see that there is such a term at present time. The problem, however is that there was no such term at the time I signed up and played.

This is how this point looked at that time:

3.8.2 Players should be aware that Smart Live Casino and Guruplay.com operate off the same software. Therefore any player who has accepted a sign up bonus from Guruplay will not be eligible for a sign up bonus from Smart Live Casino. Should one be given to them then Smart Live Casino reserve the right to void the bonus and all winnings from bets placed on their account that involve the bonus, bonus winnings, the deposit related to the bonus, or any winnings from that deposit.

You may notice the difference if you look carefully.

Many non-English versions still have no 3.8.2 at all.

This point was changed at some time between my registration and present time. Most likely, shortly after you removing my winnings and my discussion about it with live chat.

This is indirectly proven by the fact that during the chat I referred to earlier your customer support failed to provide any reasonable justification for the actions taken.

Note that the relevant department couldn`t state a reason straight away, they took some time, like an hour or so, to come up something. And this "something" was a ridiculous link to Heaven Live terms and a general clause about abuse. It is pretty much obvious this term would have been quoted to me instead of that nonsense had it been in place at that time.

The only conclusion, as before, is that you did not have any valid reasons to void my winnings and hence the full balance of 5490 pounds should be restored in my account.

The most likely scenario of how things went at Smartlive looks this way:

1. They notice I have won big

2. -"Lets look into him, maybe we can do something

-He`s got an account at Heavenlive and received a bonus there

-Do we have a term allowing only one account/bonus in our group?

-Yes, we do and we can void his winnings

-Great, lets do it

3. 5k removed

4. -He`s on the chat asking wtf happened

-Quote him 3.8.2 as a reason

-Hey wait it only says about Smartlive and Guruplay, no word about Heavenlive

-oh [cenco­red­]!!­!!!­!!!­!!!!! [cenco­red­]!!­!!!­!!!­!!!!!! Tell him to wait an hour

5. OOOPS.

6. -So what do we do, Boss? We have nothing to support removing winnings. Maybe return the balace and say it`s a technical bug?

-Hey are you nuts??? We`re talking 5 grand here. Come up with something! Like give him the Heaven`s term or tell he`s an abuser or a terrorist, anything!

-But Boss, this is obvious bs, will he go for it?

-{cencored] him! What can he do about it? Just tell him! And get this 3.8.2 sorted out!!

posted on May 5, 2013.

Still haven't got a reply. Please, don't close this complaint.

posted on May 8, 2013.

I haven't still received any reply from Smart Live Casino. I understand that my answer could have been looked a little bit offensive but I suppose that this is understandable because of the frustration a person has when a casino takes 5k back under made up excuses. Any person in my situation would feel quite the same.

posted on May 8, 2013.

Dear Izya78

As it was mentioned to you previously according to our terms and conditions if you have already claimed a promotion from Heaven Live Casino, you are not eligible to get the promotion from Smart Live Casino. This term has been clearly stated on our website since Heaven Live Casino ( Winnerheaven) started operating under the same software. In your case since you already had accepted a promotion from Heaven Live Casino, you were not qualified to get one from Smart Live Casino. That was the reason why your winnings were void.

We would like to also remind you the following term.

1.5 We may: (1) revise these Terms and Customer Agreement and (2) change the service at any time. Any such revision or change will be effective immediately on its posting on the Website, or by notification to you via email or by post and you agree to check for revisions and changes on each occasion you use the service and/or show.


Once again we sincerely apologise the inconvenience you have encountered and hope you are satisfied with the above explanations as we acted according to our terms and conditions which were clearly stated.

Kind Regards

Smart Live Casino

posted on May 12, 2013.

I will add details according to this complaint shortly. Please, don't close this complaint.