Silver Oak Casino is refusing to pay

RESOLVED
posted on March 8, 2013.

I have been a customer of silver oak for 2 years and have never requested a withdrawal. i won $6k on slots and attempted to submit a withdrawal, at which point I was told it would be denied. Essentially, the story is that because I was playing on a no rules/no max bonus and i played a "prohibited" game I would not be allowed to collect ANY of my winnings, despite the fact that my winnings were on slots (the allowable game) and none of them were on the few hands of video poker I played in between my slots game. Here is the problem with this:

1) When I first collected a bonus, video poker was locked and I was unable to play. i called and was told by the agent that it was locked until I met playthrough requirements. NO one said I could NEVER again play video poker until I had zero balance or my winnings would not be paid. I was told this on the phone today, at which point the manager said that even if I was playing on a coupon from 2011 I could NEVER collect if I played video poker at any point since that is a "restricted" game. The bonus rules are, apparently, in effect until you cash out (and you can only cash out if you only play on the allowed games). So I would be held to this even with a TWO YEAR OLD bonus.

2) The language of the rules states "Playing a prohibited or restricted game while using a no play no max bonus will void any winning generated as a resulting (sic) from the use of a no play no max bonus." Okay, simple enough. I didn't win on a prohibited game, though. I won on the SLOTS, which is what the bonus was valid on. In a previous posting on this site, the AceRevenue team responder says to a player "Unfortunately, you've played blackjack, war and roulette with that bonus which are not allowed games and winnings generated were earned by playing those games and not the allowed ones." Again, I ask, why am I denied when I didn't win playing those games, but the allowed games?

3) As a sidenote, customer service could not have been more rude. They typed at me in all caps (yelling, in essence), hung up on me twice and then tried to blame it on me ("I transferred you but you didn't answer." Huh? you hung up on me! the "if you'd like to make a call" message came on).

I read the rules, and believed I understood them. I even clarified them with the agent the first time I spoke to her about a bonus. Additionally, my computer screen clearly shows that I have over $6K of withdrawable funds. These rules are not clear; I understood, from reading them and clarifying with the agent, that any winnings on prohibited games could not be collected. I understood that and, thus, only played a bit of video poker (cheap video poker) for a break.

This is not ethical, nor would this language hold up in court in the US (I'm an attorney, so I'm sure of this). No "reasonable" person would be expected to understand that a coupon from 2011 would still be in effect. It's easy enough to put in the rules; something like "you can never play a prohibited game while using funds from a nr/nm bonus or all winnings generated during the use of the bonus will be voided. You must have a balance of zero or cash out before you can play restricted games or you will not be allowed to cash out any winnings, even those generated on allowed games." I'm writing this in anger, and at night, but you see my point. Unfortunately, these casinos cannot be held accountable because they are overseas. Fortunately, I can still warn any and every person I can reach to avoid this casino. I play at Bovado, frequently, which offers match play and I have never had an issue with a payout once I reach my playthrough requirements (which are clearly indicated). I will discontinue play at this casino and recommend others do so as well.

The really sad thing about all of this is that I have played a lot of money in silver oak, much more than what I'm asking for. If they had just said "oh, we can only give you $2000 right now and the rest later" odds are i would never have even collected it the rest. They didn't even try to work with me, and were rude on top of it. I'm very disappointed, very frustrated, and very angry.

posted on March 14, 2013.

Dear Player:

We will look into this matter and will get back to you soon

AceRevenue Team

posted on March 16, 2013.

Thank you for checking in. I appreciate it.

posted on March 17, 2013.

I gave the short version of my situation in my complaint. Unfortunately, I called in and asked about the rules when I played video poker the first time. I did not use live chat. if you have to get in touch with this casino, use live chat and then you have documentation of the ways you may have been misled. I'm posting the chat here that confirms some of the issues I've had, but please note that when I said I asked about the rules regarding video poker and the bonuses the first time and was not given all the information by the agent, the "manager" simply says "I understand." So, without proof, they just don't want to hear it.

Also, I completely dispute the claim that my account was at zero when I made the deposit. I play slots a lot, so my balance is never an even zero (many pay 2 or 3 cents odd). However, perhaps this is one of the exceptions they may or may not make. Initially, I was told my winnings would be voided because of "mixing funds", which is why I asked about that. I was then told that wasn't the issue, but the video poker was. I feel like they were looking for an excuse to deny it, and just chose whichever one was better for them.

Chat Transcript

info: A site operator will be with you momentarily.

info: Hi! Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Mallory'. Please verify your Email and Phone Number so that I can assist you.

sugarbearnm: *****

Mallory: Thank you for the information.

Mallory: How may I assist you today?

sugarbearnm: Hi. I spoke to Pauly last week about a withdrawal from my account and he said I should contact you again and ask for Mark in the withdrawal department. When i called and spoke to another manager he said there is no Mark in the withdrawal department. So, is there, or is there not, someone named mark that works there and handles withdrawal questions?

Mallory: Please allow me a moment

Mallory: As far as I can see from your account you were filing a complain to CDS

sugarbearnm: I haven't filed that yet. What I am trying to do is get a hold of the person I was told to forward my question to, who was named Mark. I wrote it down. I was told he might be able to help me, but when I called back I was told there IS no Mark. So I'm trying again to find out if there is a Mark or not.

Mallory: No there is not

sugarbearnm: So why did Pauly, a manager, tell me to contact Mark around 12 pm? He even gave me a time.

sugarbearnm: I don't want to file a complaint. i just want a fair hearing from someone in the casino.

Mallory: I thinkyou should contact Paulie again tomorrow

sugarbearnm: I need to speak to someone above Paulie. I was told there is no one above the two managers I've spoken with. I can't believe that this is true. They have to have supervisors. How can I speak to their supervisors?

Mallory: Let me contact my manager real quick

Mallory: Please allow me a moment

Andy: Good evening Shana

Andy: this is the casino manager on duty

Andy: How may i help you today?

sugarbearnm: Good evening. I assume I haven't spoken to you already? I spoke with Pauly and another manager on the phone but I didn't get his name.

Andy: Erick was his name

Andy: I can see clear notes from Erick in your account

sugarbearnm: Yes, thank you. Okay, so I'm assuming you've read my issue. I haven't had any real resolution, and I'm trying to reach this Mark person who Pauly told me to contact, but am now being told there is no Mark who works there. Is that correct?

Andy: Yes that is correct

Andy: Mark is the graveyard manager

Andy: Not directly working in payouts department

sugarbearnm: So who does work in the payouts department? Or, more specifically, if I am not satisfied with the help I am getting from this level, who can I speak to? I can revisit my complaint if you'd like.

Andy: I recommend you to deal with the payouts department

Andy: Or the CDS

Andy: You can email payouts department to [email protected]

Andy: or file your complaint through the CDS as you said the other day

sugarbearnm: Okay, but how do I contact the payouts department? I asked Erick the other day who I could speak to but he said he is the end of the line. I would prefer to speak on the phone or in chat rather than in email since I have been getting the runaround from your casino and will have no idea who is on the receiving end of the email. i would really prefer to negotiate this rather than filing a complaint. I never said I would file one, for the record (since it's been brought up twice). I only asked if that was my only recourse and was told that it is.

Mallory: I am sorry for the delay. I will be right with you.

Mallory: One more moment. I apologize for the wait.

Mallory: Thank you for holding. I will be with you in a few moments.

Andy: Sorry for the long wait

sugarbearnm: Thats okay

Andy: Unfortunately the withdrawals department handles issues only via email

Andy: and yes erick is the of the line

Andy: If we follow the casino rules, and the bonus rules, then your winnings are to be voided

Andy: and we will have to credit your deposit back in your account so you can start from scratch

Andy: that is what we usually do

sugarbearnm: Okay, I will try an email with them. I don't want anything done with my account until I have resolved the issue, which is what I told Erick the other day. In the meantime, before I contact them, may I clarify a few things with you just to ensure that I understand?

Andy: Sure

Andy: tell me

sugarbearnm: I was told that my winnings might be voided because I "mixed funds." I have searched your rules high and low and can't find anything about mixing funds. Can you explain what this means? So that I don't do it again?

Andy: I will check your account real quick

Andy: ok

Andy: I got the game report

Andy: this all started on 2/16

Andy: you deposited 50$ on 2/16/2013 8:57:26 PM

Andy: got a bonus no restrictions for sltos and keno ONLY

Andy: then on 2/22/2013 11:21:23 AM you deposited another 50$

Andy: you processed this second deposit while having 15$ left from the previous deposit

Andy: so you started mixing funds there

Andy: then you deposited 100$ on 2/27/2013 4:55:34 PM

Andy: while having $66.39 from previous 2 deposits (mixed deposits)

Andy: on 3/6/2013 12:00:33 PM you depostied another 50$

Andy: while having $26.90 from the 3 previous deposit

Andy: You always redeemed a no playthroughj no max cash out for slots and keno ONLY

Andy: so that is the mixing funds

Andy: on the other hand

Andy: You were to play slots and keno ONLY all the time

Andy: and according to the game report

Andy: 50% of the total play was done on video poker

Andy: that is the other problem

sugarbearnm: Okay, so why did it start only on 2/16. That is not the only time I mixed funds, as I have been a customer since 2011 and have never had a zero balance that I can recall. At what point would mixing funds NOT be an issue?

Mallory: Thank you for holding. I will be with you in a few moments.

Andy: You have not only been mixing funds

Andy: but also playing not allowed games

sugarbearnm: Right, but I want to take this one question at a time. I'll get to that in a second. Can you please answer my question about mixing funds? I can't know how not to do it if it isn't explained to me.

Andy: You need to make sure your balance is always zero before performing any new transaction

Andy: or very close to zero

sugarbearnm: So if I collected a no rules/no max bonus in 2011, when I opened my account, my winnings last week could potentially be voided if my account never went to zero? And I couldn't play any other games without risking voiding my winnings because this initial coupon would still be in effect?

Andy: correct

sugarbearnm: Wow. Okay. And that is where in your rules? I tried to find it but couldn't.

Andy: we can consider an exception

Andy: i think you already talked about this with erick

Andy: But anyways

Andy: that is not the only problem

Andy: You played video poker

sugarbearnm: No, not the mixing funds. Additionally, I want to be clear so that I know what is going on.

Andy: that is why we are not able to make exceptions this time

sugarbearnm: So where is it in the rules? I didn't see an answer there.

Andy: according to your account comments you were claiming rules are not clear

Andy: so you better go through the central dispute system

Andy: i found this

Andy: 5.Kindly note that all Deposit Bonuses are Non Cashable. This means that the bonus will be deducted from any withdrawal made. Please also do not mix Deposit Bonuses; to avoid complication use one bonus for every one deposit made.

Andy: http:/­/ww­w.s­ilv­ero­akc­asi­no.c­om­/te­rms­-co­ndi­tions/

sugarbearnm: that is regarding another issue, not this one. This is not something I discussed. I just want to know where in the rules to find that so that I understand them and don't make a mistake.Okay, I saw that, but understood that it meant you can't collect multiple bonuses on the same deposit.

Andy: nop

sugarbearnm: Okay, another question, one that i didn't ask Erick. You said my wagering was done 50% on video poker. Is this since 2/16 or since the life of the game, or my last deposit?

Andy: we have to consider all this as 1 deposit

Andy: since you are mixing funds

Andy: so

Andy: starting since 2/16

Andy: when the fdirst deposit was done

sugarbearnm: That wasn't my first deposit, though. I've never had a zero balance. Why is that considered my first deposit?

Andy: you had zero balance on 2/16

Andy: so we start counting from 2/16

Andy: to date

Andy: I recommend you to go through the CDS

Andy: as you can see this is very complicated

Andy: we are not able to make an exception due to mixing funds and playing not allowed games

sugarbearnm: Okay, I don't remember being at zero; I've always had a few cents in there at the very least, but okay. The deposit that I made for the $100 was made, I collected a deposit, and I won on slots only. After I won I played a few games of video poker, and then tried to collect my winnings, but was denied due to the fact that I played video poker after I played slots and won? Or the fact that I played video poker on an old deposit? Or both?

sugarbearnm: collected a bonus, sorry, not deposit

Andy: You were not allowed to play video poker at any point

sugarbearnm: So if I had never played any video poker ever, won that money on slots, and then played a few hands of video poker with money over and above the bonus(my own money) my winnings would be voided?

Andy: voided yes

Andy: you are not allowed to play video poker if you are using a slots and keno ONLY bonus

Andy: If you want to play table games, you are to play with your own money or another bonus

sugarbearnm: After I zero out my account, only, though, correct? Because there's no way for me to play with my own money or another bonus as long as I have an active bonus with money remaining?

Andy: correct

Andy: You are welcome to contact support so we can check your account

Andy: before performing any new trnsaction

Andy: whether it is a free chip or a new deposit'

Andy: To avoid misunderstandings in the future

sugarbearnm: And there's no room for negotiation in this situation? I just have to accept my entire slots winnings as a loss because of this?

Andy: Unfortunately we have no other option

Andy: As I mentioned above, we might consider making an exception for you

Andy: But the problem here

Andy: and i think is the main problem

Andy: is that you played video poker with a bonus good for slots and keno ONLY

Andy: we might forget about the mixing funds

Andy: But unfortunately you played video poker

Andy: not much we can do about it

sugarbearnm: Okay, just two more questions. Why does the system lock me out on video poker when I first get a bonus and then it opens up later at some point? Even on no playthrough bonuses?

Andy: all bonuses are set with a 1X playthrouhg

Andy: for tournaments and some restricted games

Andy: once it is completed

Andy: all the balance

Andy: that is originally shown as bonus balance turns into withdarwalble balance

Andy: and that is when all the rest of the games are open

Andy: But it is totally up to the client to follow the rules

Andy: the rules of the bonus code you are selectiing

sugarbearnm: That goes to my second question which is why does it show a withdrawable amount when, in fact, it isn't withdrawable?

Andy: that is how the system works

Andy: As I said before it is totally up to the client to play by the rule

sugarbearnm: Okay, so it's up to me to remember to ensure that I'm not depositing on an old bonus, that I don't play anything other than slots only if I have any NR/NM bonus active (even if it's two years old), and how much money is withdrawable?

Andy: correct

sugarbearnm: Okay, then, thank you for your time, Andy. I appreciate it.

Andy: unfortunately we can not monitor what you are doing

Andy: unless you come to us

Andy: but anyways

Andy: in case you have further questions

Andy: do not hesitate and contact us back

Andy: we are open 24/7

sugarbearnm: Well, I did come to you and call and ask your rep about that video poker question and was told I could play as soon as the lock was off and that it was fine with the rules. But I don't have a transcript of that, so no one wants to hear it. I'm sure there's a note in the file about that phone call.

sugarbearnm: I was told, when I brought it up, that I couldn't expect your reps to go over all the rules even though I specifically called and asked about them.

Andy: I udnerstand

Andy: Is there anything else that I can help you with?

sugarbearnm: No, that's it. Thank you.

info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [email protected] at the end of your chat.

Andy: Anytime

Andy: Thank you for visiting our Casino. Feel free to contact us at any time for further assistance

posted on March 20, 2013.

Dear Player:

This issue has been sent to Upper Management to be reviewed. We will get back to you soon

AceRevenue Team

posted on March 23, 2013.

Dear Player:

On Feb 16th: you've deposited $50 + $140 bonus, Previous balance was $0.04

On Feb 22nd deposited $50 + $140 bonus, while having balance of $15.

On Feb 27th deposited $100 + $280 bonus while having a $66 balance.

On Mar 6th deposited $50 + $130 bonus while having a $26 balance

You've mixed funds on these deposits and your current account balance is $6.043.76.

The issue here is that All bonuses used from Feb 16th up to now were No Play No Max and for Slots and Keno only.

From Feb 16th up to date, customer played 46.8% on slots games, 1.2% on Slot Tournaments and 50.7% on Video Poker. Slot Tournaments and Video Poker are not allowed games.

Rules on the website:

“No Play/ No Max bonuses

Unless otherwise stated, No Play/ No Max bonuses may only be used to play Slots, Keno, Bonus Bingo and Scratch Card games. All other casino games are prohibited and restricted. Playing a prohibited or restricted game while using a No Play No Max bonus will void any winning generated as a resulting from the use of a No Play No Max bonus. These terms are valid and applicable even after the playthrough requirement has been met.

If a player has used a No Play No Max bonus and has completed the playthrough requirement but proceeds to play a restricted or prohibited game, this will result in their winnings being voided. The rules of the bonus will continue to apply even after the playthrough requiremen has been fulfiled."

(http:­//w­ww.s­il­ver­oak­cas­ino.co­m/t­erm­s-c­ond­iti­ons/)

Casino informed us that you were called and manager explained you everything regarding casino rules, which you didn't accepted. Manager offered to place back the deposits on your account to start all over again but customer refused to, instead asked to not make any changes on your account as she will file a complaint through the CDS.

Basically the rules were clear about playing other games when having a No Play/No Max bonuse in the account

AceRevenue Team

posted on March 25, 2013.

Your response does not say anything other than what I have already been told. However, it seems as though you fail to recognize (or don't realize) that the rules are not clear. You have only essentially restated everything I've already been told, without further explanation.

Since you're going back to Feb. 16th for my first deposit, you're applying the rule about mixing funds. Here is what the rule says, according to your own manager: "Please also do not mix Deposit Bonuses; to avoid complication use one bonus for every one deposit made." Okay, so if you notice EACH time I made a deposit I collected ONE bonus. It does not say your account must be down to zero before you can make another deposit and collect another bonus. How am I to infer that from what your rules state? How would I know that it means anything other than "only one bonus per deposit"? I did not violate this rule, as you yourself have demonstrated in rehashing my history. I deposited, I collected a bonus. Another deposit, another bonus, etc.

This mixing funds is the issue because if you run my game report from the last deposit you will see almost all of the play is on slots; I only played video poker AFTER I won the money on slots, fair and square. I am not asking for money won on a prohibited game. You did not address this in your response, but I ask you again why did you yourself deny another player a payout on this very same website because his winnings were earned on prohibited games, yet also deny me when mine were NOT?

Finally, I question your ethics and integrity in this regard: I won two progressive jackpots on slots. These jackpots are earned through money invested by other players. If you absorb my winnings, rather than paying them as you should, will you then reinvest them into those same games, or will you just keep them? What is your policy in this regard? If you absorb them, you are stealing from the other players who paid into those progressive jackpots by using a blatantly unclear rule to prevent from paying out to those of us who you are denying and keeping the money for the house.

I have already spoken to this previously, but I NEVER said I was going to file a complaint. I asked your manager, Erick, is this the end of the line? Is there no one else I can go to? He said yes, he was the end of the line. THEN, I said "what about the CDS"? He said "oh, yes, you can file a complaint there." He then offered me the website, after already claiming that there was no other place to go but him. I asked the previous manager, Paulie, not to do anything with my account until I figured out how to resolve the matter. I never even mentioned the CDS in that conversation because I didn't even know what it was. Do not claim that I refused a refund of my deposit because I did not do that, ever. I simply asked that nothing be done until I had a chance to review my options (at this time, when I spoke to Paulie, I was told there was a Mark in the payout department I could talk to, which turned out to be a total lie). I really hope you aren't going to try and claim I refused a refund when I did not.

Please try and actually read my questions this time and answer them rather than regurgitating the same nonsense I've already heard from three of your managers. Run my game report from my last deposit (the one I only claimed one bonus on, per your rules) and tell me I spent 50% of my funds playing video poker, because I did not. Then tell me why you aren't paying me.

posted on March 27, 2013.

Dear Player

We've submitted this complaint to casino Upper Management.

Did you send it to the CDS?

Thanks

AceRevenue Team

posted on March 29, 2013.

Ok thank you.

posted on April 10, 2013.

Dear Player:

We would like to know what was the outcome of your complaint on the Casino CDS

AceRevenue Team

posted on April 11, 2013.

I never filed a complaint with the cds. As I have stated previously, I only asked that my account be left alone until I decide how to proceed. I was hoping the issue could be negotiated here first.

posted on April 15, 2013.

Dear Player

Once again; winnings were voided since you did not follow the rules that are established and available on Silver Oak's website:

According to Silver Oak Casino Rules:

http:/­/ww­w.s­ilv­ero­akc­asi­no.c­om­/te­rms­-co­ndi­tions/

"No Play/ No Max bonuses

Unless otherwise stated, No Play/ No Max bonuses may only be used to play Slots, Keno, Bonus Bingo and Scratch Card games. All other casino games are prohibited and restricted. Playing a prohibited or restricted game while using a No Play No Max bonus will void any winning generated as a resulting from the use of a No Play No Max bonus. These terms are valid and applicable even after the playthrough requirement has been met.

If a player has used a No Play No Max bonus and has completed the playthrough requirement but proceeds to play a restricted or prohibited game, this will result in their winnings being voided. The rules of the bonus will continue to apply even after the playthrough requirement has been fulfilled."

AceRevenue

posted on April 18, 2013.

Once again you have simply restated the same thing without acknowledging that these rules are unclear. Why on earth would any of us play after a big win if we understood that this is the case? Yet I see repeated complaints of the same thing. The mixing funds rule is especially problematic as it says one bonus per deposit, which is exactly what I did, yet you are applying it here in every response as you continue to revisit my 2/16 deposit. Also, you failed to answer any questions regarding why you denied another player his/her winnings because they were ON prohibited games, and how you intend to deal with the money I won in regards to other players as it was a progressive win.I will accept and allow that this issue may be closed because you are standing firm in your assertion that these rules are clear, even though I called and spoke to a representative and she did not explain them the same way. I do not accept that this is resolved, however. Your casino has not made a good faith effort to treat these situations reasonably. For example, I play often on bovado casino and have had a payout issue arise once with them. When my payout was denied, I called and spoke with them and explained why there was an issue. In response, and in order to maintain good will with a customer of nearly 10 years, they offered a one time exception after clarifying the rules about withdrawal maximums and paid my $4000 in full. This is a casino that understands the rules of fair play and that when people read things they are open to interpretation unless very clear and very specific (which, for the most part, their rules are). Your casino is riddled with complaints and labeled rogue for obvious reasons. You will not see another dime from me and I will encourage others to avoid it. I play a lot online, but never again with you or your ilk.

posted on April 18, 2013.

Once again you have simply restated the same thing without acknowledging that these rules are unclear. Why on earth would any of us play after a big win if we understood that this is the case? Yet I see repeated complaints of the same thing. The mixing funds rule is especially problematic as it says one bonus per deposit, which is exactly what I did, yet you are applying it here in every response as you continue to revisit my 2/16 deposit. Also, you failed to answer any questions regarding why you denied another player his/her winnings because they were ON prohibited games, and how you intend to deal with the money I won in regards to other players as it was a progressive win.I will accept and allow that this issue may be closed because you are standing firm in your assertion that these rules are clear, even though I called and spoke to a representative and she did not explain them the same way. I do not accept that this is resolved, however. Your casino has not made a good faith effort to treat these situations reasonably. For example, I play often on bovado casino and have had a payout issue arise once with them. When my payout was denied, I called and spoke with them and explained why there was an issue. In response, and in order to maintain good will with a customer of nearly 10 years, they offered a one time exception after clarifying the rules about withdrawal maximums and paid my $4000 in full. This is a casino that understands the rules of fair play and that when people read things they are open to interpretation unless very clear and very specific (which, for the most part, their rules are). Your casino is riddled with complaints and labeled rogue for obvious reasons. You will not see another dime from me and I will encourage others to avoid it. I play a lot online, but never again with you or your ilk.

posted on April 21, 2013.

Dear Player

The rules are clear and you've haven't followed them. You have played non allowed games with the bonus and this is why winnings were voided.

AceRevenue Team

posted on April 21, 2013.

Dear Player

Please keep in mind that casino rules are clear:

Rules on the website:

“No Play/ No Max bonuses

Unless otherwise stated, No Play/ No Max bonuses may only be used to play Slots, Keno, Bonus Bingo and Scratch Card games. All other casino games are prohibited and restricted. Playing a prohibited or restricted game while using a No Play No Max bonus will void any winning generated as a resulting from the use of a No Play No Max bonus. These terms are valid and applicable even after the playthrough requirement has been met.

If a player has used a No Play No Max bonus and has completed the playthrough requirement but proceeds to play a restricted or prohibited game, this will result in their winnings being voided. The rules of the bonus will continue to apply even after the playthrough requiremen has been fulfiled."

(http:­//w­ww.s­il­ver­oak­cas­ino.co­m/t­erm­s-c­ond­itions/

AceRevenue Team

AskGamblers
posted on April 21, 2013.

 This player played non-allowed games, therefore she's not entitled to make requested cash-out and there's nothing we can do about it! So, this complaint is solved!