PlayHippo Casino - Payment confiscated following change to terms and conditions

UNRESOLVED
posted on December 9, 2013.

I have deposited over €40,000 during last 6 months with VIP bonus on each deposit and been betting €25 per spin on slots. In the last couple of months, i had only cashed out smaller winnings when betting €25 per spin and having the same bonus without any problems, but when I do win €11,000 the casino refuse to pay me my winnings and inform me I broke their rules (they changed to max €8 per spin) and that their decision is final. No problems at all as long as I lost money or didn’t win too much.

Read full story below.

I joined playhippo.com about six months and they offered me reasonable bonuses. I had made big deposits and they quickly offered me VIP status and further bonuses. I played in a standard way betting at most 25euros per spin on a variety of slots. Occasionally I won but mostly I lost. They always paid me and usually quickly. This was all within their terms and conditions.

On Sunday 8th december 2013 , I deposited 500euros and played with a bonus. I bet my usual 25euros per spin and eventually cashed out about 11000 euros. I got an email from support telling me that i had broken a term and condition by betting over the permitted amount of £8 per spin. They were removing my winnings and that was final. They told me this rule had changed about two months ago.

Here is their email:

Dear Sir

>

> Our security department has made a thorough review of your account and

> concluded that you have breached our T&C.

>

> You have not used bonuses given to you in there intended way and

> consistent and clear breaches of rule 8.10c are evident.

>

> *8.10c In the interest of fair gaming there is a maximum allowed stake

> per bet until the wagering requirement has been met. This is true for all

> bonuses given from the company and include first deposit bonus, reload

> bonuses and all other bonuses. The maximum stake is €8 or currency

> equivalent. A bet is defined as one roulette/slot spin or one dealer's

> dealt hand in any table game*

>

> *http:­//p­lay­hip­po.c­om­/Te­rms­Con­dit­ion­s/C­asino*

>

> As a result we will deem the current bonus and winnings there off void.

> Your balance has been reset to the initial deposit made on the 08/12/2013.

> You are still welcome to use our site and your account will not be closed

> as long as you follow and respect our terms and conditions in the future.

> If you breach our terms and conditions again we will permanently close your

> account.

>

> Our decision is final.

>

> *Kind Regards*

>

> *Alexander Taylor*

>

> *Head of Legal, Compliance & Regulatory*

I find this strange that:

1. I have been always playing this way and they have allowed my withdrawals including one the day before for a small amount (about 800 euros) but today they decide they are going to enforce it. I have been playing there every day for weeks and they allowed me to play like this until today. Few days before they also allowed a small withdrawal to go through despite betting 25 euros per spin.

2. Is it really reasonable to expect a player to check terms and conditions every time they take up a bonus to see whether they have changed. I play sometimes 2/3 times a day. When I sign up to a credit card, I agree to the terms and conditions. If the terms and conditions change they always inform me of the change. But casinos don’t appear to have this rule.

.

This casino is giving the industry a bad name and players should be warned in my opinion. I feel I deserve my winnings and ask if you can help get my winnings back.

posted on December 16, 2013.

Hi

I have included the answer I sent to support that has then been sent to you. You can contact me directly on my private email that has been sent twice to your support.

When the T&C was changed last time end of September every single player, old and new, had to accept the new T&C through a pop up that was displayed when the player logged in. If the new T&C was not accepted the player could not physically play. A practice that I think is very fair and if anything goes beyond standard practice of most industries that I’m familiar with.

Further, the player tries to indicate that he has only been allowed to cash out small amounts and now when he suddenly wins “big” we then enforce this rule. The week before his account was under review this customer cashed out over 11 000 Euro in total and he has also cashed out bigger sums in short periods of time during his time with us on more than one occasion. We don’t routinely check before withdrawals for breaches of the T&C but this time his account was red flagged by the system and manually checked. His account showed consistent and undeniable abuse and therefore we enforced the rule that has been in effect for a long time. In addition the customer writes that he has gotten consistent VIP bonuses which is not either true as he has not qualified for our VIP program because he has to high ratio bonus money vs. real money. 98% of his wagering has been done with bonus money, which is absolutely fine, we have no rules about that but he has not been part of the VIP program.

A few words on the fairness of the T&C in question

We were admittedly a bit naive having had 95% of our customer base from Scandinavia where there is very little professional bonus abuse. Once we started taking in a lot of players from the rest of Europe we found ourselves in a position were something had to be done as we were being badly abused. At one point Devils delight and Scrooge (two infamous abuse games because of the high variance) were suddenly among the top five most popular games. We decided to implement the common practice of limiting the amount a player can bet on a single spin/dealt hand while still having bonus to wager. Just by putting that in the T&C 90% of the bonus abuse stopped without us having to do anything else. We don’t even check routinely before processing withdrawals since the problem has almost disappeared after the T&C update. In addition, we only enforce the rule if there has been a non debatable, consistent abuse like in this particular case."

Kind Regards

Sara Forsberg

R&F Manager

posted on December 16, 2013.

GmailG­oog­le+­Cal­end­arW­ebm­ore­Pri­mary(no subjec­t)b­ash­235­7to me2 minutes agoDet­ail­s1. ­  ­   ­ There was no pop up to my memory. Did the pop up bring attention to the clear change in rule that max bet size has changed to just 8 euros? If it did do you not think that I would have stopped betting 25 euros? Of course, why would I break the rules and risk losing money? This rule change was in September and you don’t enforce it till December? 

2.       I was offered a BRONZE code that gave me a 100% bonus up to 2000 euros? I was told this was a VIP code. I have the live chat /email to prove this and it certainly sounds like a VIP offer?   I was also given a tailored made bonus code (weekly) for a 100% up to 1000 euros. You were always encouraging me to deposit big and I did. In total I deposited over 40, 000 euros. Check this if you are not sure. I had personal contact from Sven who offered me these codes. He referred to me as VIP so that’s what I thought

. 3.       Can you clarify what you mean by ‘consistent’ abuse? Because I play bonuses that you keep offering me?  In the last bonus I deposited 500 received a bonus of 250 and played at 25 euros per spin. This is not large betting! Clear abuse would have been betting the whole balance in one? Most casinos have a max bet rule but didn’t make this clear.

  4.       I have never been treated like this before by a casino. Most casinos would pay the withdrawal and then decide they were no longer going to offer further bonuses. Could you not after paying me they tell me about the rule for future cases? But acting retrospectively feels like you were happy for me to keep depositing under any situation …until I win that is? 

 5. If I am being reasonable it seems there were faults on both sides? Sure I could have checked the terms every time I deposited? But you could have drawn attention to a significant change in a clearer way? You kept encouraging me to make bigger deposits so I did . You kept offering bonuses so I kept taking them? Can we not reach an agreeable solution for both parties?   

posted on December 19, 2013.

Hi,

As a representative from PlayHippo we can just say from our point of view how we see this, and which has been resolved in another forum as well, but when the player did not receive the outcome he desired moved on to another forum.

We made a big T&C update and ALL players had to re approve the new T&C before they could even continue to playing with us.

The T&C pop- up stated "We have made updates to our Terms and Conditions. You can read them here (link)

Do you accept these T&C

Yes No

This was a mandatory acceptance and for all players regardless if a deposit had been made or not. If the customer choose No that person would not be able to play. If the customer choose Yes the pop under disappeared and he/she would be transferred to the game lobby. However, the system can't tell if the customer actually read the T&C so if the Yes box was ticked he would be cleared for play regardless.

The September T&C update included six updates where one was the 8.10c rule (as I understand it's the rule that's been discussed here). In short it was updated from a maximum 10% of the bonus amount can be bet on a single spin/dealt hand to a maximum of 15 Euros to a flat €8, or currency equivalent, regardless of the bonus amount given.

So when the player claims that we did not inform about the changes in T&C it is a outright lie.

posted on December 20, 2013.

Hello Again

Firstly i do not appreciate being called a liar. This is not a very good way of treating customers that you were happy to receive over 40 , 000 euros deposits. It is not like i joined the casino and only played once.

Secondly, I have done an internet history check and cannot find any evidence of any kind of pop up page with the new terms and conditions. I have tried a number of routes and involved an IT expert. A number of other players who had concerns with playhippo have confirmed for me that there have no evidence of a pop up!

So, i put it to you to PRESENT THE EVIDENCE of the POP UP , when i logged in and clear indication that i selected the new terms and conditions. If you can provide this evidence then i will accept that i made a mistake and move on. Please do not make up this evidence as i can do a cross check. Presumably, you keep records of this ??

It is quite bizarre that you only suggested this pop up existed when a forum suggested good casinos should have this. It was certainly not put to me before this.

Please also explain to readers why on a very significant website PLAYHIPPO have been put under a warning for retrospectively applying terms?? How very strange that this incidence occurs at the same time. Presumably, you are now trying to pull the wool over their eyes to?

Thanks also for not responding to the 5 points i made in the last message ( including the VIP issue) and only choosing one. So finally, I put it to you again....PRESENT THE EVIDENCE!!

posted on December 20, 2013.

Sorry... i forgot to mention ....why is that if any reader does a google search on playhippo thesecond or third return warns players!

If it was just me fair enough...but a reputable website has put playhippo under serious review.

posted on December 20, 2013.

it appears that players are NOW getting a pop up when they log in? This pop up should have ?appeared back in september. if it was done in september why is it happening now? w

posted on December 20, 2013.

It appears that players are NOW getting a pop up and rather misleadingly the pop up is saying ' These changes will not impact on your gaming experience'. Here is the image url:

http:/­/s2­9.p­ost­img.or­g/4­w1i­p3z­4n/­pla­yhi­ppo­_ro­d.jpg

posted on December 21, 2013.

Is there a way to see the feedback on the previous info we have sent to you?

All our emails sent to your support is not really being answered

posted on December 21, 2013.

Playhippo.. Can u answer some of these concerns publically please?

You may wish to also explain why other players below have also been treated in a similar way? And why a pop up is appearing now and not in September as you claimed?

posted on December 25, 2013.

Hi

We have been trying to get hold of a representative from askgambler without success. Until we have someone contacting us we recommend to contact gamblinggrumbles.com or casinomeister.com or of course LGA for any complaints regarding our services.

Sara

posted on December 25, 2013.

Yes..please post on gambling grumbles or casinomeister!

At the moment it is simply the casino's word against ours and casinomeister has already found reason to put a warning about playhippo on their site. Something they do not do until they are pretty sure something is fishy!