City club casino reduced my winnings

UNRESOLVED
posted on February 6, 2012.

Hi,

I recently received a $300 bonus from City Club Casino, after depositing several thousand dollars to their City Club and City Tower branded casinos. Upon meeting the conditions for wagering, I withdrew my maximum payout (20xbonus) of $6000. The bonus amount was removed and no longer appeared in the bonuses table in their cashier section. Upon a reverse withdrawal of this money I proceeded to win and withdraw $55,000.

City Club are now saying that my max entitled payout is $6000.- they are saying that the bonus (despite wagering conditions being met and the withdrawal being approved) is perpetual as "my winnings were derived from a bonus" and applies to my reverse withdrawal. I reason that if $6000 were my winnings and on my way to my bank account, and the bonus conditions had been met, and the bonus had been removed, that i am entitled to reverse the withdrawal and bet unrestricted.

Their Terms and Conditions do not deal with this at all. Please Help.

JH

posted on February 8, 2012.

 I should note that my balance was zero at the time of the bonus being applied, having just lost several hundred dollars in the casino during that play session

posted on February 8, 2012.

 On a second note, I just received the $6000 payment from City Club - while I don't agree with the outcome to this point (and still intend to contend it), I will commend them on their fast payments.

AskGamblers
posted on February 8, 2012.

 HarryB, can we now close this complaint as a resolved?

posted on February 8, 2012.

Please don't close, I'd like to hear their reasoning behind denying me $49,000 in winnings - as far as I am aware, they have no grounds contractually as nothing is written in their terms and conditions about it.

posted on February 9, 2012.

Hi All,

" harry " you asked for a reply so here it is:

As you have mentioned here above you were given a bonus when your balance was on zero. This means that we gave you a complimentary bonus. Not on top of a deposit or anything. We did it to give you a chance of winning money without risking any more of your money which you had lost already. We could have just as easily not given you anything and negotiated a new deposit bonus for your next deposit.

Now this bonus as you mentioned had a max winnings. Which means that all winnings made on your free bonus given by us will be maxed at 20Xthe bonus. In your case $6000. So instead of leaving you with your losses you are complaining here that we actually allowed you to win in our casino.

I am sorry for this direct approach in the mail but it has to be clear for all. City Club is being slandered in this thread for actually helping a player win money. Yes we gave him a bonus expecting no deposit in return and allowed the player to walk away with $6000.

This thread should be a thank you note to City Club for allowing a player the chance to win back losses

I would like to add as well that all terms and conditions were explained to the player several times along with proof where everything is written.

Regards,

City Club Management

posted on February 9, 2012.

That seemed like a tirade without answering any of my points. I haven't slandered anyone (the fact that it's written would make it libel, but i haven't been libellous either), I've merely stated the facts and asked some questions. I haven't accused you of being rogue, non-payers or expressed a lack of gratitude for the bonus. I'm pretty disappointed at this aggressive response.

A couple of things:

1) Please point me to the area that deals with this (the application of the bonus terms to a reverse deposit) in your Terms and Conditions (I have requested this several times).

2) Would City Club have kept the reversed deposit had I lost it? If so, wouldn't it be fair to make an accusation of double standards?

I think at the very least you could acknowledge the absurdity of this "rule" if you have it.

JH

posted on February 9, 2012.

A couple of other things - I wouldn't feel so aggrieved had I not spent HOURS continuing to play, when a simple "tap on the shoulder" from online support would have stopped me. And secondly, i think the clarification of a situation such as this is beneficial to other players out there as a reference point. Isn't that what this site is all about?

AskGamblers
posted on February 26, 2012.

 What is going on here, any news?

posted on February 26, 2012.

Nothing positive to report. Keep telling me that "the decision of management is final" without providing an actual response to any of my questions. Also refusing to pay Marvel jackpot wins despite me pointing them to a case on this website where they did pay the player http:/­/ww­w.a­skg­amb­ler­s.c­om/­cas­ino­-co­mpl­ain­ts/­cit­y-c­lub­-no­t-p­ayi­ng-­out­-ma­rve­l-j­ack­pot­-wi­n-c284

posted on February 27, 2012.

Just received another e-mail from these guys - still refusing to answer my questions (assumingly because their actions are inexcusable) and to pay what they owe. Have no choice but to pursue legal action. This is a casino that will present a "no win" situation to their players through invoking a "max payout" on a winner, but happily taking the money back when someone loses. This is also a casino that will keep progressive jackpot wins that the player is entitled to. To anybody reading this, avoid this casino (and City Tower, Euro City) like the plague. They are as crooked as they come.

posted on February 27, 2012.

Hi,

Just to be clear. City Club has answered all questions asked. Even an explanation about the progressive winnings.

This player refuses to accept the terms and conditions.

We have chosen not to respond because this forum hosts many complaints from players that are not just and I am not talking only about threads regarding our casino. However the player did receive all the information we are obliged to hand over through our own direct channels

City Club has been in the industry for over 10 Years now with thousands of daily visitors. Once in a while people will find their way onto forum to complain. It’s human nature and unfortunately part of the industry.

City Club gave this player a Free Bonus without any expectancy of a deposit from the player. It was given out of generosity to help the player win back some of his losses in the casino. He did by the way. He received 6000 from our free bonus. If we were crooks like the accuser above mentions.....Why would we be paying a player who didn’t even deposit to get these winnings?

City Club Management

posted on February 27, 2012.

Absolute lies. Will pass on all correspondence to Ask Gamblers if you'd like. Have not dealt with my City Tower jackpot wins, put players in "lose only" situations, provide no reasoning or justification. Crooks. And crooks for 10 years apparently.

AskGamblers
posted on March 7, 2012.

Please, can you as a casino representative, tell us where can we find in your  T&C such a rule and restriction? I can find only this - " While there is NO LIMIT to the amount a Player can cash out in the casino, there is a maximum amount that can be Withdrawn in one time. For receiving any Withdrawal which is higher than $10,000, an amount of $10,000 will be paid to you once a month, upon your Withdrawal request, until the full amount of your Withdrawal is paid. The foregoing applies also to Withdrawals of progressive jackpots" - Part 6, point 6.5.3

posted on March 7, 2012.

Hi AskGamblers,

Thanks for your reposnse to this issue (i can't see your response on here for some reason) and for asking the questions that you have of City Club. They are no longer answering my e-mails.

You are right in assuming that there is nothing in the terms and conditions regarding max winning son reverse withdrawals (after bonus removed). City Club need to confess to taking one of the following stances -

When a player reverses a withdrawl of max winnings (after bonus conditions met and bonus removed), either

a) The player is in a Win/Loss situation whereby the player can gamble to either lose their reverse withdrawal or increase their winnings. - In which case, I should be paid.

b) The player is in a No Win/No Loss situation, whereby they cannot increase their winnings or lose their reverse withdrawal - in which case they should pay back EVERY player who has lost their "max winnings" in this manner.

c) The player is in a Loss/Loss situation, whereby the player cannot increase their winnings and can lose their deposit - this would put City Club in breach of most gambling licences worldwide. I have had my lawyers contact CIGA to ascertain as to whether or not this is allowed in a Curucao licence.

I don't expect much from these guys as they are typically evasive and occasionally aggressive. What I would like to do is hold them to account. I intended to utilise that money to help a disabled family member and feel like City Club have not only robbed me, but him also. they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

posted on November 26, 2012.

Hi, I received notification that this had been reopened. nothing has changed since my last comment, City Club stopped responding to my complaint. Unless there has been a change in management over there, I don't see this ever changing. I have nothing new to add but to say that their refusal to pay has caused many hardships. On seeking legal advice, I was told that the compay has positioned itself in a jurisdiction which has no accountability or regulation.