Caribic Casino - Took 1160€ from me against their own bonus terms

RESOLVED
posted on April 14, 2016.

Caribic casino took 1160€ from my account against their own bonus terms. This is how it happened:
I received 6.4.2016 a promotion e-mail from Caribic casino about a new monthly bonus. It promised 30€ bonus for a deposit of 20€. I went to their promotion page to look for the bonus terms. That is what I always do before I deposit with new bonuses. I checked 3 things that are the most important to me: wagering requirement, list of excluded games and the maximum withdrawal amount. The wagering requirement was decent and there was no maximum withdrawal limit specific for that bonus, so I decided to make a deposit. I did not receive the bonus automatically so I went to their live chat and soon the bonus was added manually to my account.
I played some time and a variety of games with the bonus, and I managed to get my balance up to 1500€. Then I went to check the remaining wagering requirement, which showed that I had about 100€ remaining to wager. I opened a game and started to wager. To my surprise, when I had completed the wagering my balance suddenly dropped from 1480€ to 320€. The live chat was not there at the moment so I wrote to the support and told them about my lost money.
A couple hours later I got an answer to my e-mail. It was short only including this text line: “6. Maximum win cap applies to associated winnings and is set to €300.” There was also a screenshot from the promotion page where the bonus terms were. Immediately I noticed that there was something strange in that screenshot. I read the terms carefully before I deposited and I was sure there was not that paragraph 6. I went to the site to see those bonus terms again (English language terms). The terms were as I remembered. There was no paragraph 6, or at least the one that the support sent. This was the paragraph 6 in their site: “6. The bonus and qualifying deposit amount must be wagered 35 times before any part of the deposit, bonus funds or associated winnings can be withdrawn or transferred.” There was no mention about any bonus cap either. I also check the CZ language version and there was no mention about the bonus cap in there either. I opened and refreshed the page again with both Firefox and Chrome browser. I also opened it with my friend’s computer just to be sure. All of those things proved that there was no maximum win cap rule. Caribic casino had made a mistake.
I took two screenshots from the English promotion page (with Firefox and chrome) and sent them to Caribic casino support team. I told them that the rules they gave me didn’t exist on their site, and I asked them to return my money. It took them over one full day to answer me back. This was their answer: “Do you see old T&C on Your side? This can really be that your page is not properly refreshed.” When I read that answer I sort of knew that they had changed the rules during that period it took them to answer me back. I went to check their page anyway, and “surprise, surprise” the rules were changed. This line about the bonus cap was added there. So basically instead of acknowledging their error and returning my money they ended up blaming me for the whole thing.

posted on April 15, 2016.

Hi Jani,
I was hoping we can find a solution together, but we can also discuss it here now. The campaign was set correctly from the beginning and the max withdrawal was set in the bonus settings from the beginning. I have checked with the platform provider, we have all the logs confirming that. We as casino cannot influence it backwards anyhow. Please see attached printscreen, - max cashout in Everymatrix platform, -EUR 300. I have also sent You the print screen of the original T&C version, I have also checked that it was updated on the day when bonus was set. We are using standard T&C text for many promotions and just adding specific details, I believe Your print screen is real, possibly you have seen the language version at the moment when it was not properly refreshed yet. But we can not change the settings of the bonus in the system backwards, the game was fully fair, we have not influenced your winnings anyhow by the system. This is how the bonus was set from the beginning - max cash out 300.
Sincerely,
Sophie,
CaribicCasino.
---

posted on April 16, 2016.

I was really hoping we could find the solution together too, but since I you didn´t response to my e-mail after 4 days, I assumed that you considered the case closed. I have never accused the platform provider or the campaign. I only criticized your bonus terms page. The page is at your (Caribic casino) responsibility. Players should be able to trust the terms that are visible on the site. I am not blaming Everymatrix, I am blaming you. You said: ” We are using standard T&C text for many promotions and just adding specific details.” Maybe this is where you made the mistake. You added standard T&C text to the promotion without even reading it through. That is a huge mistake. If players cannot rely on the terms on the page, what can they rely on, really?

posted on April 19, 2016.

Hi Jani,
Thank you for Your response. I understand Your position. I would however stick to the fact that the terms were updated on time. You are blaming the casino for the fact that the terms were not correctly displayed on your side at the specific moment, which is indeed a trouble, but outside of our control and does not make a casino an irresponsible partner.
Also, there is a part in General terms and conditions accepted from Your side, saying that
„In the event of any dispute, you agree that the records of the server shall act as the final authority in determining the outcome of any claim. You agree that in the unlikely event of a disagreement between the result that appears on your screen and the game server, the result that appears on the game server will prevail, and you acknowledge and agree that our records will be the final authority in determining the terms and circumstances of your participation in the relevant online gaming activity and the results of this participation.“
Thanks You,
Sophie,
CaribicCasino.

posted on April 20, 2016.

First of all I´d like to say that I’m sure the campaign was set correctly from the beginning. You have shown the proof of that (your screenshot), and I have no reason to doubt that. What you have not shown any proof of is whether the terms were updated on time or not. Your screenshot of that bonus terms page really offers nothing. Was that screenshot even taken from the internet or is that just a screenshot of the file on your own computer. There isn’t any date or time shown in that screenshot and I cannot even see if that page was opened in a browser, so I assume it is the latter. I think that you just forgot to publish the new terms. That would be the most likely scenario. Human errors happen.

You wrote: “In the unlikely event of a disagreement between the result that appears on your screen and the game server, the result that appears on the game server will prevail, and you acknowledge and agree that our records will be the final authority in determining the terms and circumstances of your participation in the relevant online gaming activity and the results of this participation. “ I think that you are now confusing with two different things here: game server and casino server. All games by Net Entertainment are located on the Net Entertainment´s game servers. Casino page is located on the casino´s own server. I have no issue with the gaming software or the game server data. We are not talking about an individual game round win here.

You keep telling me that no one made a mistake. If no mistakes were made, how do you explain that I saw the wrong bonus terms page before I made my deposit that morning? How did I see the wrong page at that evening when I had finished the bonus wagering? How did I keep seeing the wrong bonus terms page during that whole day while using two different browsers? I refreshed that page every time I went to see the terms. I took a screenshot of that page with my Firefox browser at 16.07 (screenshot1). I took a screenshot of that page with the Chrome browser at 19.22 (screenshot2) and I even opened the page with a different language selected. How do you explain that my friend saw the same page as I did when he opened the page with his computer? I have shown you two proofs that the bonus terms page was changed after my money was taken from me, you have shown none.

If you still keep saying that no mistakes were made, how can you ensure that this is not going to happen again? Can I trust the bonus terms the next time I deposit? Can any player trust the terms the next time? If no mistakes were made, that means no corrections were made either. And that really means that this could happen again to someone else. Human errors are easy to correct, other errors are not, especially the ones no one will admit.

posted on April 21, 2016.

Hi Jani,
Thanks again for Your response. First of all, I am happy to hear that You do not doubt the correct set up of the campaign, it means that there is also no doubt that the casino has influenced Your winnings anyhow.
I do understand also that you are referring to the print screen from Your side, where terms were not correctly displayed on your side at the specific moment, blaming the casino operators for the human mistake. I still doubt that there was a human mistake in place, as we have the visible date when the terms were updated. But I do also trust Your print screen, however I am sure that this trouble was due to the technical failures caused by equipment used to access the Website or faults which relate to internet service provider, for which ( again as per Terms and Conditions ) casino does not accept any liability.

Jani, if You insist on the human mistake done by the casino operator, there is a N0 of policies I would like to highlight, - You have also accepted those by playing with us.
„A number of circumstances may arise where a bet is accepted, or a payment is made, by us in Error. Reasonable efforts are undertaken to prevent errors or omissions, however system problems or human error may lead to such circumstances. Such circumstances may include, without being limited to, the hereunder situations:
- Acceptance of a bet at a price which is significantly different from those available in the market at the time the bet was placed;
- Miscalculation (including due to human error) of bonuses, winnings or returns paid to you;
- Information on odds or terms of a bet may have been entered incorrectly as a consequence of human error or computer malfunction;
- Errors or omissions which result in winnings being flagrantly incorrect or different from those on the market;
- Continued acceptance of bets on a market or event that has already been closed or suspended (“late bets”).
Neither we (including our employees or agents) nor our partners or suppliers shall be liable for any loss including loss of winnings that results from any Error by us or an error by you. You will forfeit any winnings/losses that result from any such Error.

Thank You,
Melanie,
CaribicCasino

posted on April 21, 2016.

You wrote: “I still doubt that there was a human mistake in place, as we have the visible date when the terms were updated.” You still have not provided me any proof of when the terms were updated. You have not shown any server records that the bonus terms were not changed after my money was taken. You have not given any screenshot of the bonus terms page where there is a date or time visible. It is all about the proofs and you have none.

posted on April 22, 2016.

Hi, Jani,
On the attached file You can see that is was posted on the web, as well as the date when the text was updated, - the very last row.
In both possible cases, as per above conversation, either technical failure or human error,- such situations are mentioned in the terms You have accepted. I really hope that in the future both sides will not face similar situations, and You can also profit from the new winnings.
Thank you,
Michael,
Caribic Casino oprerations manager.

posted on April 23, 2016.

Are you serious? Are you really saying that the very last row proves when the terms were published? Didn’t you notice that that the same line (“These terms and conditions were last updated at 12:00 GMT 1st of April 2016.”) was in the screenshots that I sent you? You cannot even prove when that screenshot was taken. Did you just take it or did you have that all this time? Take a look at the very last row of my response. Would that mean that this reply was published at 1st of January 2013?

Where is it said in your terms that casino is not obligated to respect their own terms that are visible on their website. You keep posting me terms that have nothing to with this case. I had accepted the bonus terms, but then you changed them. Why wouldn’t you accept your own terms?

I give you now two options: 1) Give me the proof that the bonus terms were not changed the day after I sent you those screenshots (after 6.4.2016). That should not be that difficult, since Melanie told me that you have the visible date when the terms were updated. You could also ask for server records proving that the bonus terms were updated 1.4.2016 and never after that. 2) The second option is to admit that I was right this whole time. The bonus terms were as I have proven and they were changed.
If you do one of those two options, I will never ask anything from you.


This reply was last updated at 11:00 GMT 1st of January 2013.

posted on April 25, 2016.

Hi, Jani,

Please find below the links to the information You have requested, CMS reload campaign update history.

IMG 1 - https:­//d­riv­e.g­oog­le.c­om­/fi­le/­d/0­Byf­iKb­FZU­oGb­VVN­2WG­5RT­kJW­aEk­/vi­ew?­usp­=sh­aring
IMG 2 - https:­//d­riv­e.g­oog­le.c­om­/fi­le/­d/0­Byf­iKb­FZU­oGb­TjF­LaV­NkS­Fd1­aXM­/vi­ew?­usp­=sh­aring

Thank you,
Adrian
Caribic Casino IT support.

posted on April 25, 2016.

Hi, Jani,

Please also find it in the attached version.

Thank you,
Adrian
Caribic Casino IT support.

posted on April 26, 2016.

Thank you for the screenshots. That was all I wanted to see. According to those the terms were not changed.

I was so sure the terms were changed that I made it my mission to find the truth. I am kind of gland that it is over now. This whole case has caused me so much sleepless nights, because this is not who I am. I’m not the person who starts blaming people. I have lost money a couple times before because of the bonuses with withdrawal limits. It has been my fault those times because I had not read the terms through. That is why I’m so careful not to take those kinds of bonuses ever again. That is why I always go and read the terms carefully before I make deposits.

So why did I see the terms that never existed? Why did my friend see them? You suggested that: “it was due the technical failures caused by equipment.” That just seems unlikely. Would it really be that the both computers (mine and my friend’s) had a technical failure at the same day and only that day. Your second suggestion seems also a little odd: “It was due faults which relate to internet service provider.” I admit that I’m not an expert when it comes to internet service providers, but could that really be the reason why we were seeing the terms that never existed. Whatever the real reason might be, it would always be strange to see lines of text that nobody ever wrote.

Anyway, I am done with this case. Of course it hurts me, especially because I’m not rich. If that kind of money had not meant the world to me, I wouldn’t have spent these two weeks arguing with you. I just hope you would have provided those two print screens earlier. It would have saved me a lot of pain killers.

AskGamblers
posted on April 27, 2016.

Based on submitter's last post, AskGamblers Complaints Team considers this complaint as successfully resolved and the case is being officially closed. We are happy that an agreement has been reached and we would like to thank both parties involved into this case for their cooperation.