Eurofortune Casino - Bonus deducted TWICE from withdrawal

RESOLVED
posted on May 2, 2015.

Dear readers,

If I could offer only 1 piece of advice, DO NOT DEPOSIT YOUR MONEY AT EUROFORTUNE CASINO. I beg you.

We all acknowledge that in the casino business we are not going to find a bastion of honesty and integrity. That's a given.
What I did not expect, however, was to discover the most morally reprehensible set of terms and conditions in existence, and even then, still not adhered to.

Allow me to explain.

I deposit $50, and am credited $150 bonus, which I of course know will be removed from the balance should any withdrawal request occur.

I play the casino (in accordance with the T&Cs) and get the balance up to $650.
At this point lets take a look at this clause in the T&Cs.

5.1. All Deposits of 249 USD/EURO/GBP/AUS or less have a max withdrawal of 10X the deposit for that specific play session (all other currencies pegged to USD). Once a withdrawal is approved, the casino applies the 10X rule and corrects the withdrawal to accurately reflect the 10X rule. The remaining funds are deemed 'Non-Withdrawable' and are cleared from the player's balance. Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal.


Now, I'm no mathematician, but let me have a go at it:

10 x $50 = $500

This means that according to clause 5.1 the maximum withdrawal amount for a deposit of $50 is $500.


When my balance reached $650 and a withdrawal was requested (on February 20, 2015) the software automatically removed the bonus amount of $150 as expected, and adjusted my balance to $500.

Over 42 days (30 working days) pass without payment. I write several emails requesting information on the withdrawal, usually with the same response of:

"your complaint has been forwarded to the financial department"

On one occasion, when my question was:
"why hasn't the withdrawal been processed yet?"

The response received from "Seth" was:
"because we stick to our terms and conditions" and then a cut-and-paste of this clause:

5.2. Customers can submit their withdrawal request at anytime. The approval time may take fifteen - eighteen (15 - 18) working days starting the date authorization process was completed successfully. Processing a pending withdrawal requires authorization from the Fraud department as well.

I then thanked Seth for his condescending response and pointed out that it had been well over 18 working days since the withdrawal request. The response was then, of course:

"your complaint has been forwarded to the financial department"

On April 7th 2015, an amount of $320 was deposited into my account.

I was expecting an amount of $500 minus $30 withdrawal fee (also morally questionable, but alas is in the T&Cs)

Upon requesting furthur information on the amount I was advised that I was paid correctly, and that it was $470 - $150 because the bonus had to be deducted. I of course reported that the deduction had already been automatically carried out by the software upon the withdrawal request.

Me : I thoughouly read the terms and conditions, and have complied. There is no clause which gives the ability to DEDUCT THE BONUS TWICE. if there is, please point it out...
Seth : that is how you see it, once the amount was deducted off your balance, then what's in your pending balance - is what you'll get
Seth : no more than that
Me : I dont think you understand (or choose not to) the bonus $150 was ALREADY deducted. By deducting it twice that is STEALING. please show me the term and condition which allows the bonus to be deduted TWICE
Me : The software AUTOMATICALLY deducts the $150 upon withdrawal
Seth : it was deducted once, then you decided to keep playing and naturally it would get deducted again since it was already deducted and was not allowed for larger cashout amount
Seth : your max cashout for 50 is 500
Seth : if you take a bonus
Seth : that amount gets reduced
Seth : even if you have 1000 to cashout
Seth : you'll still get 320
Seth : eventually
Seth : due to bonus + fee
Seth : if you wish to claim the whole 500, then don't claim a bonus
Seth : only the fee will be reduced
Me : no, according to the terms and conditions, the max cashout is $500 minus the (rediculous) fee. Read the T&Cs again. Please. I have.
Seth : Sir, that is how it works. I can have a manager explain it to you via email
Me : The bonus would not "naturally" be deducted twice as you have stated.... that is a logical fallacy.
Seth : as you see it, I'm afraid in reality that is not how it works
Me : I know how it is spposed to "work" as I am experienced in this and legal contracts. hat is exactly how the T&Cs read.
Seth : ok I'll forward this conversation to a manager to answer in my stead
Seth : as we cannot reach an agreement
Me : The bottom line is yes the bonus is removed from the balance, but only once. This has been removd twice. Theft. Pure and simple.
Seth : ok, a manager will take a look and get back to you
Me : Please forward the conversation on and PLEASE request the term and condition which llows the bonus to be deducted twice.
Seth : ok
Me : thanks
Seth : np



No explanation detailing the legitimacy of deducting the bonus twice was recieved. Upon advising Eurofortune that I would be lodging a complaint with AskGamblers.com should the $170 not be paid by 27th April 2015. No amount nor even a reply was recieved.



Thankyou for taking the time to read this complaint.
This case appears to me to be an incorrect application of the terms and conditions, which of course profits the casino $150.

Regards, John

posted on May 3, 2015.

Hello there,

I'm sorry that you feel that you have been 'shortchanged', but this whole story stems from your erroneous interpretation of the x10 rule. The x10 rule is imposed when you request the withdrawal, then the bonus is removed according to its size. You have reversed the order, that if you got to 650 the bonus was the only thing taken off.

You took a 150 bonus, you wanted to withdraw. The x10 rule was imposed on your overall withdrawal in accordance with your deposit, which was 50. From this withdrawal of 500 you were deducted the bonus. The bonus was not deducted twice.

Again, we are sorry if there was a miscommunication or we didn't explain ourselves well enough in chat, but that is the term and players do understand that the bonus gets taken off at the end.

Kind Regards,

Casino Support

posted on May 5, 2015.

Dear Admin - this complaint is not yet resolved.

Hello Eurofortune staff, thankyou for your prompt reply on this matter.
I must note that when taking into consideration the urgency eurofortune applies to processing payments - I was not expecting a response here until sometime around late June.

Regarding your reply of my interpretation being 'erroneous' and 'have reversed the order' -

Here again is the clause in question:

5.1. All Deposits of 249 USD/EURO/GBP/AUS or less have a max withdrawal of 10X the deposit for that specific play session (all other currencies pegged to USD). Once a withdrawal is approved, the casino applies the 10X rule and corrects the withdrawal to accurately reflect the 10X rule. The remaining funds are deemed 'Non-Withdrawable' and are cleared from the player's balance. Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal.

Please show evidence that my interpretation of this clause is erroneous. I charge that it is Eurofortune that is using this clause erroneously:

Where in the clause is the 'order' specified? an example of this would be if the clause had read:

"Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal after the 10x rule is applied."

The clause includes no such specification - therefore the clause must either be:

a) entirely open to the interpretation of a independent 3rd party (such as a court)

b) deliberately deceptive or misleading - which means the clause is legally void.

Taking into consideration the term used within the clause "max withdrawal", is the withdrawal really the "maximum"?
To apply the deductions in the order Eurofortune has done in this case does indeed pocket the casino $150, but the clause would need to read "max withdrawal before deductions" to remove any ambiguity of interpretation.

At the very minimum, to have this complaint resolved, Eurofortune is requested to remove this (deliberate?) ambiguity from clause 5.1 in the terms and conditions, as to not to deceive potential future customers. I also request the $150 that is owed.

Dear readers,
how would you interpret this clause?

AskGamblers
posted on May 9, 2015.

This case has been reopened upon Eurofortune Casino's request and we would like to give it more try for a successful resolution.

posted on May 10, 2015.

"Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal."

The reason this was indicated separately is because they ARE deducted from "that particular PENDING withdrawal". Obviously, if the pending withdrawal is already AFTER the amounts over x10 were taken off, then the bonus is taken off from the result withdrawal. Otherwise it would not have been written so.

I am sorry you choose to find ambivalence here but all other players have been clear on this rule, and it cannot be changed for any individual. The decision is final and the term is clear.

posted on May 12, 2015.

Dear Admin - Complaint not resolved.

Dear Eurofortune,

Thankyou for your reply on this matter. I am also thankful for you condescending accusation - that I 'choose to find ambilivilance'.

Since your messages have deteriorated into accusations / insults, I will continue this exchange with the same level of respect.

I am sorry that you simply don't have the intellectual capacity to see the glaringly OBVIOUS ambiguity. I am sorry that you choose to manipulate the ambiguity in question to the result of a profit, whilst stealing from honest customers.

Most of all, I am sorry that you attempt to justify your activity by stating that it has been done to other players.


Once again, I implore all readers:

DO NOT DEPOSIT YOUR MONEY AT EUROFORTUNE CASINO.

THIS CASINO'S TERMS AND CONDITIONS HAVE DELIBERATE AMBIGUITY - WHICH WILL BE USED BY THE CASINO TO JUSTIFY A REDUCED PAYOUT.
BE VERY CAREFUL.

AskGamblers
posted on May 12, 2015.

Based on the casino's Terms and conditions rule 5.1: "Deposit bonuses used during a play session that results in a pending withdrawal request, are also 'Non-Withdrawable' and can be deducted from that particular pending withdrawal.", we consider that casino behaved accordingly their Terms and conditions. We consider this case resolved. Also we recommend to the player, if he thinks that his rights have been infringed, to seek further assistance from the licensing authority for Eurofortune casino.