21 Grand Casino refusing to self exclude my account and refusing to withdraw my monies

RESOLVED
stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on October 21, 2013.

Hi,

I currently have £3,050 in my 21 Grand Casino account. It was as one large withdraw. this is from a deposit of £1,030 (£30 due to having to verify Neteller account as they do not withdraw back to card)

I went onto live chat to request self-exclusion. I was told to cancel my withdraw and make smaller withdraws (3x £1,000 and a £50 withdraw).

They have since altered their max withdraw to be £1,000. It will only let me withdraw 1 transaction. I was originally told to wait 2-3 minutes before it would let me request the next one, but I am now told to request a withdraw one per day.

Now, I have requested self-exclusion on live chat, over the phone and by email. As of now, my account is still open, I cannot request that the other £2,050 also be withdrawn (making a total of £3,050).

I am very unhappy and 21 Grand Casino are not helping me one bit.

All I want is my funds and my account self-excluded, it's hardly a tough ask?

AskGamblers
posted on October 22, 2013.

 Player confirmed this complaint is being resolved!

AskGamblers
posted on November 25, 2013.

 Player requested reopening of this complaint, since it's not solved at the end!

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on November 25, 2013.

Despite having informed them on live chat, over the phone and in various emails (including CC'ing their gambling authority), they plain out refused to close my account and prevent me from gambling.

The owner threatened me down the phone calling me "sick". They also sent me two emails puporting to be from some New York based law Collections agency asking that I not publically reveal their mis-practice and that they would sue me for "lying" if I did.

The casino is not to be trusted at all. They completely dis-regard any self-exclusion requests.

I am still due £1,050 from my £3,050 that I had at the time of my self-exclusion and they are refusing to pay out the remaining amount.

I agree that I played the funds - weeks after requesting self-exclusion and being told that "I would be paid" and that they were aware of my self-exclusion request but they rejected to action it, instead saying they would only action it AFTER my withdraws are processed and that I was free to continue gambling!

AskGamblers
posted on November 28, 2013.

If the player has some proofs that he had requested a self-exclusion in front of the casino support and despite that his account was left opened for playing days and even weeks after the request, then this issue could be considered as a violation of the common practices, concerning responsible gaming procedures.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on November 28, 2013.

Emailed proof sent to [email protected]

AskGamblers
posted on November 29, 2013.

Here's the proofs, sent by the player. All personal info has been masked.








from:




 Steven XXXXXXX- XXXXXXX <[email protected]>




to:




[email protected],

[email protected]




cc:




[email protected]




date:




 21 October 2013 16:39




subject:




 OFFICIAL COMPLAINT for 21 Grand Casino




mailed-by:




 gmail.com



 


Dear Sir/Madam,


 


user: XXXXXXX


 I have CC'd in your gambling authority so they are aware of the situation.


 I am writing to you today to make a formal complaint.


 I want to withdraw my current balance of £3,050. I have waited a week for my funds, and today I was told to cancel my withdraw and make smaller withdraws.


 I successfully re-requested £1,000. I was told I could make the next request in 2-3 minutes. When your system refused I was then told to wait until tomorrow as it was now (suddenly) one request per day.


 I have also requested self-exclusion on live chat, over the telephone and by email. This request is due to my compulsive gambling problem. I no longer wish to gamble - I have a tendency to cancel withdraws and lose the funds. I do not want that to occur here.


 I was advised on live chat by Pablo that if I self-exclude, you will not allow me to make further withdraw requests. Therefore, you would effectively hold on to the other £2,050 in my account that has not yet been re-requested as a withdraw.


 Actions:


 - I want the remaining £2,050 in my account to be put through as withdraw requests in the increments you specified (2x £1,000 and 1x £50)


- This will give a total of 3x £1,000 and 1x £50, to be paid one payment per week (starting with the 3x £1,000 payments and then finishing with the £50). This is at your request. You have stated multiple times that you are only prepared to payout a max £1,000 per week.


- Giving I first requested payment a week ago, I am due the first payment of £1,000


- Self-exclude my account and prevent my from gambling with you in the future. I have made numerous attempts to self-exclude and have my monies withdrawn. You have continually ignored this request.


 I want all monies withdrawn to the NeTeller used to previously deposit the £30 verification deposit (account id: XXXXXXX)


 Best Regards,


 Steven XXXXXXX


 




from:




 Steven XXXXXXX- XXXXXXX <[email protected]>




to:




[email protected],

[email protected]




date:




 23 October 2013 10:13




subject:




 OFFICIAL COMPLAINT regarding you ignoring my self-exclusion and re-opening my account during self-exclusion




mailed-by:




 gmail.com



Dear Sir/Madam,


 


21 Grand Casino username: XXXXXXX


 Again cc'd in your gambling authority so they are aware you are ignoring your duties under responsible gambling procedures.


 As you are well aware, when I had a balance of £3,050 I requested (over live chat, on the telephone and by email) self-exclusion to protect me from gambling any further.


 You have acknowledged that on the phone and stated that you would prevent any further bets from me and that further bets would be void.


 You have today allowed me to login and cancel £2,050 of that £3,050 and lose it.


 You are well aware of my gambling problem. You are well aware that I have requested self-exclusion and you confirmed to me on the phone this was put in place (by banning me).


 Now, due to the fact that you ignored your duties under responsible gambling guidelines, I will still expect the sum of £3,050 to be withdrawn to me (to Neteller account id: XXXXXXX. 


I am unsure why you allowed me to continue to bet after acknowedlging my self-exclusion request, telling me I was banned is beyond me!


 Regards,


 Steven XXXXXXX




 



from:




 Steven XXXXXXX- XXXXXXX <[email protected]>




to:




[email protected],

[email protected]




date:




 23 October 2013 10:56




subject:




 Re: OFFICIAL COMPLAINT regarding you ignoring my self-exclusion and re-opening my account during self-exclusion




mailed-by:




 gmail.com



Hi,


 


21 GrandCasino userid: XXXXXXX


 Following on from this.


 Despite having requested self-exclusion numerous times (and even being told it that you had banned me following my request), you allowed me to bet (cancelling all of my withdraws). Thankfully, once down to £1,000 (when I sent complaint email) I managed to claw it all back! :)


 However, I do ask that you please take my self-exclusion request seriously and prevent me from gambling with the funds any further as I do not want to lose any.


 I am sorry if my email seems harsh in any way. No offence was meant to be giving.


 But for the sake of good business practice. Please take my self-exclusion seriously and allow my total of £3,600 in withdraws to progress without further hindrance.


 I also note that, currently at the time of writing, your system will not let me request the final £600 withdraw. (3x £1,000 have been re-submitted). If you could ensure these are withdrawn to neteller account: XXXXXXX


 Regards,


 Steven XXXXXXX


 

AskGamblers
posted on May 28, 2014.

This case has been reopened upon casino's request.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

The casino never paid the final £1,050.

Why would the casino re-open it unless they are finally willing to pay out the remaining sums owed?

posted on May 28, 2014.

As per our terms and conditions (1.8.4), the player is authorized to withdraw only 1000 credits per week (7 business days), that's the reason why we asked him to cancel his withdraw request of 3000 in order to be able to make 3 withdrawal requests of 1000. The player got his 1st withdrawal on November the 4th so 10 days after he made his withdrawal request, the 2nd one on November the 13th (Meaning 9 days after) but he cancelled the 3rd one on November 11th - 2 days before he got his 2nd withdrawal request. Then, the same player made a charge back of 1000 GPB on January 21th.
Regarding the self-exclusion, as per the casino standard procedure, we can't suspend a player's account till he has a pending withdrawal, and so in order to have him paid.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

Your terms & conditions cannot supersede your gambling regulations (regarding keeping players accounts open and allowing them to gamble despite persist requests to self-exclude and telling you they had a gambling problem).

You had to self-exclude me and prohibit me from gambling further. Yet you continued to keep my account open, letting me gamble weeks after.

You then sent me threatening emails from a lawyer informing me that you may sue me for defamation due to my comments on this forum (your lawyer said they attached documents, but they never did).

As for the chargeback you say was initiated on January 21st. That is quite impossible given that I swapped bank accounts in December. I did ask my bank for information regarding a chargeback in this scenario as you owed me £1,050 and had taken £1,000 but they said there was no grounds for said chargeback and that it was a legal dispute.

posted on May 28, 2014.

Dear player, please contact Player Support Department by phone at +44 20 8144 5572 with your player account details

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

Dear Casino,

I wish to keep everything in writing.

Please post your response on this public forum or in writing via Email.

The last time I rang your customer service (months ago), I was transferred to Sebastian who was quite rude and called me sick, among other things.

posted on May 28, 2014.

Dear player, if you are interested to have this properly solved please contact Player Support Department by phone at +44 20 8144 5572 with your player account details.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

Again, the last time I contacted your company by phone I was treated in a rude manner and called sick by Sebastian, who named himself as the general manager.

I am interested in having this resolved properly, therefore all contact must be in writing, as you have made promises over the phone before and not gone ahead with them.

An example of this is when Sebastian stated he would pay the £3,600 as I have requested self-exclusion. It was maybe a 5 minute phone call. A few weeks later when you didn't pay it out and let me gamble it, you played a "recording" which was cut short to around 20 seconds - You cut out most of the conversation and made it look like it was simply an insurance offer.

Therefore, due to the nature of this, I want everything in writing or in the open, so both parties have everything recorded.

posted on May 28, 2014.

Dear player, we highly recommend not to artificially produce posts with comments that are far from being truth. Dear player, if you are interested to have this properly solved please contact Player Support Department by phone at +44 20 8144 5572 with your player account details.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

I have not artificially produced comments that are far from the truth - They are completely truthful, however, because they were on the phone, I have no proof. I have stated many of this previously (e.g. see the post on 25/11/2013)

Why did you re-open this old case if you were not interested in chatting on this public forum?

I will not contact you by phone as I want everything to be in writing, so I have copies.

Please contact me by email or leave your thoughts on this public forum.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 28, 2014.

I just went onto live chat to speak with your support team (I can record that). I was quickly transferred to Pablo, your Customer Service Manager.

Here is a quick excerpt:

---

16 : 59 : 00 (Pablo): Hi Steven
16 : 59 : 18 (Me): Hi, please explain why your representitives have requested I contact you (via askgamblers)
16 : 59 : 47 (Me): It has been 7 monthes since you refused to pay my funds - and now you open dialog with me so I would like to know what it is your company would like?
17 : 00 : 30 (Pablo): sorry sir, no one from the casino contacted you

---

You ask I contact your support team, but they have no clue why you re-opened this old complaint, which is still unresolved.

This is very poor customer service. You took almost a month before excluding my account and did not pay the full amount due.

You still owe me £1,050. There is more than enough evidence to win a legal case given all the email threads (some posted above!)

posted on May 29, 2014.

Dear player, the former casino management was replaced and we are trying to help. But if you are not following our instructions it will be hard to get this solved properly. Please contact Player Support Department by phone at +44 20 8144 5572 with your player account details and with reference on this post and ask for the casino manager directly.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on May 29, 2014.

As stated, I wish to keep this conversation to writing only.

This is because I wish everything to be recorded, your company have made promises over the phone and then renegaded on them in the past.

I therefore request everything in writing only.

Your continual request for me to phone you is irrelevant, please get in touch with me by email or leaving a message here.

If you do not want to contact me in writing (here or email) then I will assume it is because you are aware you are in the wrong (everyone can see that from the evidence above and the fact you admitted it is against your t&c to self-exclude while you have pending withdraws - this is against UK law and your gambling regulations).

Need I remind you that your t&c clearly state you abide by the laws of England (UK) and as such responsible gambling procedures should be in place as per UK law. Your above comment contradicts that of UK law as under such legal framework, you must exclude a user when they request it, and cannot for any reason keep the account open or allow them to gamble.

posted on June 2, 2014.

We are in the process of trying to resolve this issue with the player and will update shortly.

AskGamblers
posted on June 5, 2014.

Is this solved? Can we closed this complaint? Thank you.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on June 5, 2014.

No, this 8 month complant has still not been solved.

The casino do not seem to recognise what they have done is wrong and are refusing to pay out.

Casino clearly fails to recognise and understand responsible gambling.

posted on June 9, 2014.

We are discussing the matter with the player. Will be updating shortly.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on June 10, 2014.

The casino have given my details away to a third party.

This third party has informed me that the casino have agreed upon a compensation deal to settle this.

I rang the support line to confirm this deal, and the customer support refused to put me through to a manager, informing me that my account is closed and that I have no further dealings with you.

???

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on June 15, 2014.

The casino has agreed a compensation deal to settle this matter.

Thus far, part of that compensation has been paid out. Awaiting the rest to be paid out before this case can be closed as settled amicably.

stevenhp United Kingdom
posted on June 16, 2014.

Casino has now fully paid the agreed compensation package to settle this matter out of court.

Case closed.